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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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 Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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Yesterday a group of my students were trying to get me to teach them swear words (I wouldn't go any further than 'crap' and 'hell' - they thought it hilarious that dong, our equivalent to 'poop', would be a swear word). One student asked me 'what is f*cking'?
'Shhhhh' I replied. 'Yok-mal; annio'.
'But what is f*cking mean?', she persisted.
'Shhhhh, don't say that. It means having sex'.
'Oh really!?' She and her friends were genuinely astounded to hear that.
Then they wanted to teach me Korean swear words, which I quickly put a stop to. It was starting to remind me of my brief hogwan days, lol. Thankfully my students almost never swear in either language.
Anyhow, today my Korean friend who's a hogwan teacher told me about how a high school English teacher was all upset at him for teaching his students English swear words. Go figure. A lot of Koreans just really don't clue in that the worst words in our language are just as rude as the worst words in theirs. |
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Big Mac
Joined: 17 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Why are American teachers so surprised when they hear disrespectful comments about their country? And why do they demand so much respect for their country? I'll never get it.
Just laugh when they say stuff like that. When you get all hot and bothered about this stuff you're acting like a stereotypical American.
Really...if someone said something like that about Canada I'd laugh and move on. It's not really a big deal. It's not even worth defending. Not everyone has to love my country. It has its faults and its people aren't perfect.
If they hate Canada (or the United States) enough to say something like that...they must have their reasons.
Maybe you should ask them why they feel that way (and not in a critical way) instead of acting all tough about it.
You can't demand respect...you have to earn it.
I should add that I wouldn't tolerate the use of the "f" word though. |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Big Mac wrote: |
Why are American teachers so surprised when they hear disrespectful comments about their country? And why do they demand so much respect for their country? I'll never get it.
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Wrong questions.
I am an American. I know as well as anyone why people might not like my country, and I do not expect anyone to have any special love for it.
That's not the point.
When I am teaching, however, I do expect my students to show respect and common courtesy for me. My students know when I introduce myself of the first day of class that I am American. Comments like "f*cking USA" in my classroom are disrespectful to me, and something that I cannot and will not tolerate in my classroom.
If the students are children, they will punished swiftly, harshly, and publicly as an example to the rest of the class. Then I will forgive them as they are children and do not know any better.
If they university students, I will take them outside, explain to them why what they said was wrong, and send them home for the day. Then I will forgive them as they are children and do not know any better.
If they are adults, I will take them outside, explain to them why what they did was wrong, ask them why on Earth they thought that was OK, and why they are taking my class in the first place if that is their attitude towards Americans. Then I will immediately march them to the front office and have them permanently removed from my class as they are no longer welcome any class I ever teach.
Outside of the classroom, people frequently make disparaging remarks about the US to me. If they make those remarks intelligently and respectfully towards me as an individual, and I am in the mood to discuss politics (and yes I do often have better things to do), I might be willing to discuss their views with them.
If they cannot understand, however, the fact that even though I am a US citizen, George Bush and Condoleeza Rice do not return my calls, however, that discussion will not last for very long.
In a nutshell, I don't really care how anyone feels about my country. I am ambivalent about it myself.
I do, however, insist on being treated with common decency both inside and outside of the classroom. |
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the eye
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| alabamaman wrote: |
| If there was no profanity in the song, the title of the OP's thread would have been completely different. |
Again, nice try.
If he wasn't fro America, the title would have also been different. What a stupid line of reasoning.
The OP admitted that the subject of his thread was the bashing of america and not profanity. You should rub your crystal ball a bit harder because your ability to read minds is a little cloudy. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| the eye wrote: |
| alabamaman wrote: |
| If there was no profanity in the song, the title of the OP's thread would have been completely different. |
Again, nice try.
If he wasn't fro America, the title would have also been different. What a stupid line of reasoning.
The OP admitted that the subject of his thread was the bashing of america and not profanity. You should rub your crystal ball a bit harder because your ability to read minds is a little cloudy. |
In an earlier post I said "he was talking about THE STUDENT'S LACK OF RESPECT and use of profanity."
So it appears that I was half right.
But you are wrong. The subject of his thread was not the bashing of America. He wrote in his last post "In a nutshell, I don't really care how anyone feels about my country. I am ambivalent about it myself. I do, however, insist on being treated with common decency both inside and outside of the classroom." (italics are mine)
Better check that crystal ball.... |
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Cheonmunka
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:55 am Post subject: |
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You are forgetting. They are just kids. When I was a kid I was a little bastard. Stirring up negatives everywhere. From my antics I could have really hurt feelings. I am adult now so no problems and give way to careful thought. But, kids are kids and spout stuff that has no real meaning to them. They are innocent.
If you are here long you will have to learn to move away from the mainstream existence and PC world that we came from. |
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alabamaman
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| Cheonmunka wrote: |
You are forgetting. They are just kids. When I was a kid I was a little *beep*. Stirring up negatives everywhere. From my antics I could have really hurt feelings. I am adult now so no problems and give way to careful thought. But, kids are kids and spout stuff that has no real meaning to them. They are innocent.
If you are here long you will have to learn to move away from the mainstream existence and PC world that we came from. |
The "kids are kids" mentality is exactly what creates unsafety in classrooms, and schools! |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Cheonmunka wrote:
You are forgetting. They are just kids. When I was a kid I was a little *beep*. Stirring up negatives everywhere. From my antics I could have really hurt feelings. I am adult now so no problems and give way to careful thought. But, kids are kids and spout stuff that has no real meaning to them. They are innocent.
If you are here long you will have to learn to move away from the mainstream existence and PC world that we came from.
The "kids are kids" mentality is exactly what creates unsafety in classrooms, and schools! |
I agree with the first and not with the response/second. Nor do I agree with the OP.
It is the difference between those who teach a student/human being and those who teach a subject or for authority/respect. Korea does poorly as an example in the latter case, very poorly and we should throw some light towards the example of teaching students.
Education is about leading others to pick up the shovel and dig for themselves. Dissent, rebellion, questioning of authority are part of that process and instead of slapping out at it , being affronted personally, we should redirect it into the right channel. That energy is precious, dont ever , as a teacher kill it. Deal with it maturely.
DD |
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Cheonmunka
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:55 am Post subject: |
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Well, they may have to be re-taught that "F.." is not a cool word. But, hey, it seems like it is! I (and my son) hear it on Hollywood action shows all the time.
How are they (your typical students) to know what is and what isn't acceptable, being from a completely different language?
And knowing you as a teacher, they wouldn't associate a (personally) bad thing with YOU, merely are responding with you as if you are an impartial observer. Hah, Don't believe it?
That's kids mate. |
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the eye
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
But you are wrong. The subject of his thread was not the bashing of America. He wrote in his last post "In a nutshell, I don't really care how anyone feels about my country. I am ambivalent about it myself. I do, however, insist on being treated with common decency both inside and outside of the classroom." (italics are mine)
Better check that crystal ball.... |
Or i can just read instead.....
Here is what the OP says in his last post, you might want to read it again because i don't know where you are pulling your Italics from....
| Quote: |
you know, I didn't even consider that I should discourage profanity in the classroom. Oops. I guess it doesn't bother me that much. The only thing I tried to discourage was being disrespectful to my country. Yes, I'm American.
I thought briefly about lifting him up by the neck and throwing him out the second story window, but I think about that for pretty much everything. I've even told my students, "... and if you don't finish your homework, I'll throw you out the window." They laugh nervously and eye the window. I love my kids.
On the issue of profanity, I think its just rather silly to teach OR to ban it. "Hey, guys, you know that word? The one that you hear 50 times in an action movie? The one that the cool guys always say? Yeah, don't use that word. Even though this is English class, and these words are English, I'm banning the following words right now..." |
So, pay attention to the bold type. Show me where he implies ambivalence.
The America bashing was the the subject of the thread. How many ways do you want it spelled out? |
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Big Mac
Joined: 17 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| Son Deureo! wrote: |
If the students are children, they will punished swiftly, harshly, and publicly as an example to the rest of the class. Then I will forgive them as they are children and do not know any better.
If they university students, I will take them outside, explain to them why what they said was wrong, and send them home for the day. Then I will forgive them as they are children and do not know any better.
If they are adults, I will take them outside, explain to them why what they did was wrong, ask them why on Earth they thought that was OK, and why they are taking my class in the first place if that is their attitude towards Americans. Then I will immediately march them to the front office and have them permanently removed from my class as they are no longer welcome any class I ever teach.
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The only time I've ever dealt with a kid as swiftly, harshly and publicly as you suggest was when the director's son punched me in the face. That kind of behaviour I will absolutely not tolerate. THAT is disrespectful.
I'm not sure if saying "f..ing USA" is necessarily being disrespectful of the teacher....even if they know you're from there.
They're just saying something they think sounds funny...something they've probably heard elsewhere. You shouldn't take what a little kid says so seriously.
You know, this whole thread reminds me of a conversation I had with some Australians in Australia recently. I was on the train, and it seemed that every time I would try to strike up a conversation with people there the conversation would go silent and they would look at me suspiciously.
Then someone would ask me where I was from in the United States (because of the accent) and I would say "I'm from Canada."
It was like a wave of relief came over them and they would start talking normally again. So I asked a group of them why that keeps happening and they told me that they are afraid of speaking to Americans because they seem to be insulted very easily. But with Canadians they feel like they don't have to worry about what they say. Of course...the conversation turned at that point to how much they hated the United States and George Bush (and I have to admit I participated with glee)...so that may be part of it.
But it's something to keep in mind for the Americans out there who blow up and turn irrational when someone says something bad about their country. |
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mateomiguel
Joined: 16 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
In an earlier post I said "he was talking about THE STUDENT'S LACK OF RESPECT and use of profanity."
So it appears that I was half right.
But you are wrong. The subject of his thread was not the bashing of America. He wrote in his last post "In a nutshell, I don't really care how anyone feels about my country. I am ambivalent about it myself. I do, however, insist on being treated with common decency both inside and outside of the classroom." (italics are mine)
Better check that crystal ball.... |
Um, if by saying He you're talking about me, the OP, then no I did not say that. That's another guy. And you can stop arguing about the true subject of this thread, because I'm declaring it to be the disrespecting of my country, America. Not the use of profanity. |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| I'm not sure this is much of an explanation, but I believe the thinking behind strange things like that song is a symptom of isolation. I think many Koreans feel culturally isolated and a bit cut off from the world. North Korea probably lingers in the minds of many. I don't know where all the hurt and anger comes from, and why the victim mentality persists. I think it's isolation. Not much reality check or sounding board to work with. Sometimes it's like a huge psychiatric unit in this nation. |
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buymybook
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Location: Telluride
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Big Mac wrote: |
| Son Deureo! wrote: |
If the students are children, they will punished swiftly, harshly, and publicly as an example to the rest of the class. Then I will forgive them as they are children and do not know any better.
If they university students, I will take them outside, explain to them why what they said was wrong, and send them home for the day. Then I will forgive them as they are children and do not know any better.
If they are adults, I will take them outside, explain to them why what they did was wrong, ask them why on Earth they thought that was OK, and why they are taking my class in the first place if that is their attitude towards Americans. Then I will immediately march them to the front office and have them permanently removed from my class as they are no longer welcome any class I ever teach.
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The only time I've ever dealt with a kid as swiftly, harshly and publicly as you suggest was when the director's son punched me in the face. That kind of behaviour I will absolutely not tolerate. THAT is disrespectful.
I'm not sure if saying "f..ing USA" is necessarily being disrespectful of the teacher....even if they know you're from there.
They're just saying something they think sounds funny...something they've probably heard elsewhere. You shouldn't take what a little kid says so seriously.
You know, this whole thread reminds me of a conversation I had with some Australians in Australia recently. I was on the train, and it seemed that every time I would try to strike up a conversation with people there the conversation would go silent and they would look at me suspiciously.
Then someone would ask me where I was from in the United States (because of the accent) and I would say "I'm from Canada."
It was like a wave of relief came over them and they would start talking normally again. So I asked a group of them why that keeps happening and they told me that they are afraid of speaking to Americans because they seem to be insulted very easily. But with Canadians they feel like they don't have to worry about what they say. Of course...the conversation turned at that point to how much they hated the United States and George Bush (and I have to admit I participated with glee)...so that may be part of it.
But it's something to keep in mind for the Americans out there who blow up and turn irrational when someone says something bad about their country. |
I will 1st respond to your first smart A** remark on this 3rd page.
You seem to be such a QUACK! You say..."Why are American teachers so surprised when they hear disrespectful comments about their country? And why do they demand so much respect for their country? I'll never get it."
We don't!!! You are putting words in our mouths. The OP did not "demand" respect.
If you allow "HATRED" comments in your classroom about any country you are a QUACK. You should respond to those comments whether they are made by children or adults.
Get with the program Swell Fella. It's obvious you "HATE" America so why don't you do something about it such as join Al Qaeda?
If you "laugh" when children spill "HATRED" then you may as well have joined many Korean Teachers when they clapped and sang out in favor of the 9/11 attacks.
In America we have the "Hate Crime." You being from Canada don't quite get it. So, you are allowed to "HATE" and can act upon your "HATRED" with no additional punishment. I myself am very sick of hearing the word "HATE" on nearly a daily basis. By not responding to "HATE" statements you promote "HATE." Laughing and "HATRED" do not correlate. Who raised you or what school did you go to?
For your vocabulary lesson of the day I will teach you what to teach your students instead of using the word "HATE" which you have no problem with. The word of the day is "DISLIKE." LEARN IT AND TEACH IT!!! If you promote "HATE" In my opinion you are a freakin "HATE" MONGREL!
You might ask the question to your students why they "DISLIKE" this or that which might actually do some good and help them learn why they think what they do or to stir a conversation in the English language. By ignoring and "LAUGHING" off such statements you are nothing more than a QUACK Teacher.
The word "Fuc*ing is not a very good word either. If you don't care about profanity in your classroom then you should find another job as you
would then not be a good role model for your young students. DUH!
I'm surprised you don't allow physical violence in your classroom. I would bet alot of money you have seen it, allowed it, and done nothing about it before. But, if they hit you then it's a different story? DUH! Have you ever been Dong-Chimmed??? I would bet you enjoyed that!!! Have you ever witnessed a Dong-Chime? If you have and did nothing about it then you allow/promote physical violence. You may as well teach your children about dildo usage.
I don't think the OP "BLEW UP" or turned "IRRATIONAL" and I suggest you go back to Australia for another "GLEEFUL" moment.
By the way, the tune that was sung was from the BEACH BOYS. I captured on a camcorder my former employer singing the same tune/words when he illegally entered my house. I provided to the Civil Court the downloaded CD as evidence.
He followed up by saying..."America kill my people." You(Big Mac) sound as much like an "A" hole as he did! |
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Big Mac
Joined: 17 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:01 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, buymybook, for responding in such a stereotypically American fashion.
There's not a lot I have to say to you. I like the idea of being a "quack" teacher though. It sounds cool.
I never said that I promote hatred or violence in the classroom. I don't allow dong-chims either...and have given some stern looks to kids who have tried it. I think I said in an earlier post that the profanity was a larger issue for me than the comment. Again though, I don't think this was a case of hatred, but just a kid saying something he thought was funny.
It's just a country after all. If someone said something directly derogatory about me or about white people in general...well then that's a different story. Even then, I think it's a better policy to talk to them and find out why they think the way they do than to blow up and go crazy.
Remember...when people say they hate the United States, it's not that they hate you or the majority of the people from there. They hate the politics, foreign policy and what appears to be the predominant thought patterns in American minds towards the rest of the world (ie, we're better than you because we're American).
Last edited by Big Mac on Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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