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Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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 Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| flotsam wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
Because I think they are very relevant to Korean Culture and its definition of who should influence their youth. I believe that there should be a standard of teaching for the children and it should be debated.
Why leave it to the posters of Dave's ESL to decide? What is that going to decide?
However, lets get it out in the public. I be very interested in seeing what the public has to say about it.
Afraid?  |
This response truly deserves a  . You debate on this board, you use it as a venue to express your opinion, and this is a topic you have implied having some extreme views on. So stop being an evasive twat, and that's not just an random insult, that sums up your current posture nicely, and state your positions. Acting cute and suggesting a public debate over classroom evangelization in English between ESL teachers for a Korean audience is an idiotic waste of the people posting in this thread's time.
Engage or your what's left of your credibility will be so beyond repair no one will take a word you say seriously anymore: Christian, Buddhist and bogeyman alike. |
i really don't think you are in a position to talk about credibility. Sorry, but I am trying to suggest something that I think might be useful for future dialogue. |
Actually I think he's very much in a position to talk about credibility, unless of course you'd like to explain exactly why not...
How long will you keep evading the questions? It just makes you look worse and worse... |
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Mitch Comestein
Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Location: South
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Let's keep this discussion in perspective, since I'm just joining it.
First, let me say that I am a Christian. I believe in God, the Holy Spirit, and I believe that Jesus is the one and only savior.
However, I wonder how all those people, like 5eagles, would respond to the question I pose:
What if a teacher began to teach the ways of Islam in the classroom of your child? What if that teacher turned your child, who was raised in a Christian home, into a devout Muslim? Would you support that? It is, in essence, the exact same thing that those people are suporting.
My point is this: I don't want anyone other than myself to influence the spiritual beliefs of my children. In fact, I want my children to make the decision for themselves. I will guide them and tell them what I believe and why I believe those things, but I don't want anyone else to do it.
In all honesty, I can't understand people who support other people influencing the most vulnerable and confused souls out there. That is contradictory to everything the Bible says God wishes. He wishes for people of free will to choose to go to Him. He doesn't support, at least in my opinion, the forcing of beliefs on those not able to make a free decision. |
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TheFonz
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: North Georgia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| jaganath69 wrote: |
| Back on topic, does anyone suspect that evangelicals may be infiltrating esl as a means to further spread their word? I wouldn't put it past them. |
You make it sound as if they have a great scheme of going on Dave Esl to spread the word. I find that unlikely. Christianity gets smeared because of some "evangelicals" going around trying to remove the splinter from everyone else's eye when they have a plank in theirs. A true christian wouldn't force others to listen to their beliefs. Jesus didn't force anyone. They willingly came to him because of his holiness. However a true christian would share his/her beliefs with others, but would do so in love, not in the typical in your face, "i told you so manner". That is what turns people off from Christianity. If people don't want to hear it why try to drill it in their head?
To completely avoid Relgion, Politics, or anything controversial in the classroom just limits the discussion. Who wants that? It also depends on if its age appropriate. If they are able to handle complex subjects why not discuss them in a delicate manner.
It is easy to come on a internet forum and preach either way. Anyone can come on here and pretend to be a "holy" person or come on here representing a group and thus spoiling it for the rest. I am just waiting for a Christian sock to come and get everyone riled up. It is just a matter of time for that sneaky troll. 
Edit: Just read Mitch's post. I agree. I wouldn't want a teacher "converting" or influencing my child. However if I became aware of their agenda and didn't take action it would be partially my fault if they got converted.
Last edited by TheFonz on Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| Why won't you answer simple questions? |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| I did, read the thread. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:13 am Post subject: |
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I did read the thread. There are literally zero answers to my questions. I will repeat them for you:
Talking about God "within boundaries"? What are the boundaries, exactly?
Also, I'm very curious how and when redemption or morality were brought up in class. Does it happen often? Can you think of some examples where the words came up?
You have done nothing but dance around, dodging the direct questions people've asked you. I don't want to be presumptious, so I'll allow you the opportunity to either explain why you haven't answered, or go ahead and do so now. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, I'll give FiveEagles one thing. He did answer my question (in the other thread). |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
i really don't think you are in a position to talk about credibility. Sorry, but I am trying to suggest something that I think might be useful for future dialogue. |
Jesus Tapdancing Christ, but you are a piece of work aren't you? Relying on vague unsubstantiated insults in order to rile the people pressing you, hoping that it will start a tit for tat that will raise a smokescreen for your evasions; starting new threads in an attempt to carve out more corners to duck into; insinuating that a public forum, with "rules", will be better for the whole debate, which is a suggestion beyond absurd (What rules are you suggesting? "Items of faith should be allowed as proofs"?).
Considering how you conduct yourself, you should consider yourself lucky people are still showing interest in you answering their questions, but who on Earth would want to be associated with you in a public forum?
You are ridiculous and I think you will remain so. Therefore there is no use even trying to communicate with you. If others can be bothered to keep at it, I wish them luck. So if that was your real aim, there's one victoey for you. |
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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| at first, flakfizer wrote: |
| Troll_Bait wrote: |
| And I hope that you don't take a page out of FiveEagles' playbook and start complaining that you're being harassed because you're a Christian ("I'm being persecuted by evil-doers [atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, Muslims, and whatever other assorted bogeymen live inside your head] because of my righteousness!"). |
Was I being harassed? |
Nope.
| flakfizer wrote: |
| I didn't notice. |
Good. 
| then later, flakfizer wrote: |
| After thinking about it for a while, I am offended by your post. Apparently you prefer to think that all Christians think, act and talk like 5Eagles. The fact that you would expect me to act or talk like him shows that you don't pay attention to individuals but lazily lump all Christians together in a way that enables you to assume the worst about them. |
| mithridates wrote: |
| Me too. That was a classless remark, especially the part I've put in bold. (and whatever other assorted bogeymen live inside your head] ) |
No. I do not lump all Christians together. Please notice my use of the phrase "I hope." Not "expect" but "hope." From the relatively few posts by you that I've read, you seem quite reasonable. However, from personal experience, intelligent and logical people can become irrational when the wrong buttons are pressed. Unfortunately, your post seems to confirm that.
"Classless"? But not baseless. Both FiveEagles and Demophobe have played the "Christian victim" card before:
(From here.)
| fiveeagles wrote: |
| Eventually, the prevailing tide of popular consent will be to kill the Christian. |
(From here.)
| Demophobe wrote: |
If eamo were a president, all the Christians would have to leave again on a boat for a new land, build all the laws of that land on the book of the Old Testament, etc, etc.... Heh.
eamo, I didn't mean that the way it sounded....sorry about that. As for your paranoia about some fiendish plot by Christians....well, think what you will, but it does sound a bit silly coming from a grown man. "They are coming to get us!!!! AHHHH!!!!" Right. |
I'm sick and tired of people using the "I'm a victim" tactic, not just with this issue, but with other issues ("McDonald's made me fat! Those bastards! I'm going to sue them!") It's used as a cynical way to avoid taking personal responsibililty and, in some cases, answering hard questions.
Perhaps it was wrong of me to address the question to you specifically (including Yu_Bum_Suk), since you seem to be quite reasonable.
I don't even lump evangelicals together. Unlike some other people, I see a lot of difference between Rteacher and FiveEagles. Yes, I think that Rteacher is a bit eccentric. ( ) However, no matter how much abuse he receives (and some of it is quite viscious), Rteacher always maintains an affable front. And you might notice that earlier in this thread, he was quite up-front about what he does in class regarding whether or not he ever brings religion in. |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Troll_Bait wrote: |
No. I do not lump all Christians together. Please notice my use of the phrase "I hope." Not "expect" but "hope." From the relatively few posts by you that I've read, you seem quite reasonable. However, from personal experience, intelligent and logical people can become irrational when the wrong buttons are pressed. Unfortunately, your post seems to confirm that. |
I see, so it's irrational for me not to want to be grouped together with 5eagles. At least you now have confirmation that I am irrational. Your use of the word, "hope" doesn't change anything. If you really did think I was "quite reasonable," then you had no reason to state your "hope" that I not say something unreasonable. But your "I hope" statement revealed what you truly think. |
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TheFonz
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: North Georgia
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah but the title was different. As I recall it said Terrorist Teachers. Instead of the newly edited Ethics for Teachers. The title becomes different after we start talking about sharing personal beliefs that you agree with.  |
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