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pegpig
Joined: 10 May 2005
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 Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:16 am Post subject: |
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I remember shortly after 911 some of my students were referring to the terrorists in the planes as brave. Perhaps it's also in the translation. I worry about kids that consider suicide/murder as brave.
Perhaps I'm also brave. I started a new page. |
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Gideon
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:42 am Post subject: |
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Homer you brought up some good points..
But i still say BOMBS AWAY to the dear leader of NK.. Hes gonna get whats comming sooner or later. Although um sure he'll get more aide from countries.. yes he's playing his cards right..
Hes a beggar in disguise using his missiles as a poor excuse to get more attention. The country is impoverished and you have the dear leader spending money on missiles when he should be more concerned with his people, who he brainwashes to beleive he is the "GREAT LEADER!!", more like "A BEGGAR IN DISGUISE" |
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MorgolKing
Joined: 18 May 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
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| that regime has always tried to blackmail to get what they want but never go so far as to really provoke an engagement. |
hmm..wouldn't that be seen as a smart use of brinksmanship diplomacy?
They get concessions and do not go to war..hmm..yes the other option is far better: open war. 
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It may be a good diplomatic option for them, I only disagree with shoeboy and others that it's very "ballsy" of them. |
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JeJuJitsu
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Location: McDonald's
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
| In fact..if you want to be clear about it...the recent missile lauches by NK suited the US just fine as they might shift Japanese public opinion in favour of Japan buying into the National Missile Defence system (NMD) developed by the US military....the wheel keeps on turning. |
Exactly, Sk's wishy-washiness on this gives the International community no real option but to allow Japan to arm up. |
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MorgolKing
Joined: 18 May 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| JeJuJitsu wrote: |
I'm leaning towards Japan being the darkhorse surprise to pre-emptively attacking the Norks. First, we all know the Japs are sneaky, and it would also throw a monkey-wrench in the whole, who's the more evil-er: NK? USA? SK? JP?
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060710/D8IP4UC81.html
TOKYO (AP) - Japan said Monday it was considering whether a pre-emptive strike on the North's missile bases would violate its constitution, signaling a hardening stance ahead of a possible U.N. Security Council vote on Tokyo's proposal for sanctions against the regime.
Japan was badly rattled by North Korea's missile tests last week and several government officials openly discussed whether the country ought to take steps to better defend itself, including setting up the legal framework to allow Tokyo to launch a pre-emptive strike against Northern missile sites.
"If we accept that there is no other option to prevent an attack ... there is the view that attacking the launch base of the guided missiles is within the constitutional right of self-defense. We need to deepen discussion," Chief Cabinet Secretary Shinzo Abe said. |
"South Korea, not a council member, has not publicly taken a position on the resolution, but on Sunday Seoul rebuked Japan for its outspoken criticism of the tests.
"There is no reason to fuss over this from the break of dawn like Japan, but every reason to do the opposite," a statement from President Roh Moo-hyun's office said, suggesting that Tokyo was contributing to tensions on the Korean Peninsula."
Man SK is in a tough bind...sooner or later they're going to have to commit one way or the other. Because it looks like "sides" are becoming more polarized and solidified |
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Homer
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| Because it looks like "sides" are becoming more polarized and solidified |
It only looks that way if you fail to consider past diplomatic history in the region....what is going on now is par for the course my man. Nothing extraordinary, no flash point, no crisis immiment...just par for the diplomatic game of the region.
This will all subside as it has before when similar moves were made by NK. This is a game NK and the US (along with the regional players (China, Japan, SK)) play very well and have played for a long, long time.
The current diplomatic tractations are a testament to the fact that NK seems to know how to play the regional dynamics quite well.
Last edited by Homer on Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Benicio
Joined: 25 May 2006
Location: Down South- where it's hot & wet
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:00 am Post subject: |
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Responses from my students have been across the spectrum.
The ones who classify the Norks as "brave" generally show a pretty serious ignorance of the world around them. They really don't understand the full implications of this situation. They think of any, really any, act of defiance against the dominating powers to be good and respected. Just like the 911 hijackers, they have a totally skewed view of bravery.
I liked how someone said you should ask a more poignant question like "how do they feel about the way regular NK citizens are treated and the ones that are sent to horrible prison camps like Yeodoek? Also, how do they feel about the Norks having to guard against its people escaping? What kind of commentary does it give about the state of life in North Korea?"
That will certainly make them think of some differing opinions.
Respect NK as "brave" is like respecting the gangsta hoods running around with guns in people's faces. Are these hoods tough and brave?
Real bravery for North Korea would be to go out and try to develop something in the country side. Stop building all these weapons and try to help these people get back on their feet. Try make something where they have a communist country, but people aren't compliant because they have a boot on their neck- like China.
Well, that would just be too hard, wouldn't it? |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:14 am Post subject: |
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South Korea's "fence-sitting" will prove disasterous in the end. They want to be the straw that stirs the stick. They honestly want China (1.5 billion people to their 48 million people) to listen to them. The only reason they haven't been assimulated by a foreign power is because of a lot of luck.
Korea has never played the middleman role very well and they won't have much luck now. Usually what they did play very well was being a vassal of China. Understandable considering their position but hardly anything to brag about.
An old Indian proverb says, "When elephants fight, it is the grass that suffers". South Korea should keep that in mind. |
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Benicio
Joined: 25 May 2006
Location: Down South- where it's hot & wet
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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Well, historically Korea has always been alright with the idea of being China's vassal. They generally think of China as a "big brother".
I've talked to quite a few Koreans and read some things that the new view for Korea is to pull away from the US alliance and align with China as they see China as the emerging super power. They want to be the toady who rides along with them. |
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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Privateer wrote: |
| The student's views are fairly typical of the young generation. It suits them to see North Korea as 'tough'. If you want to be confrontational you could ask them what they think of the way Kim Jong Il treats the North Korean people, and then ask them what they think they should do to help their northern relatives in their plight. |
| Benicio wrote: |
Responses from my students have been across the spectrum.
The ones who classify the Norks as "brave" generally show a pretty serious ignorance of the world around them. They really don't understand the full implications of this situation. They think of any, really any, act of defiance against the dominating powers to be good and respected. Just like the 911 hijackers, they have a totally skewed view of bravery.
I liked how someone said you should ask a more poignant question like "how do they feel about the way regular NK citizens are treated and the ones that are sent to horrible prison camps like Yeodoek? Also, how do they feel about the Norks having to guard against its people escaping? What kind of commentary does it give about the state of life in North Korea?"
That will certainly make them think of some differing opinions. |
Actually, many young Koreans are unaware of the gulags and other human-rights abuses in North Korea.
I had an interesting conversation with someone who teaches at another university. Once, as a joke, he said, "Anyone who forgets to do their homework again will be sent to North Korea." (He admitted that it was a bad joke.) The students' response? "Fine." He came to be aware, through conversations with them, that they thought that North Korea was quite similar to South Korea. So he assigned them some homework. Do a search for websites using the keywords "North Korea" and "gulags." He explicitly instructed them to use English-language search engines, not Korean ones, because Korean ones would not give up that kind of information. He said that the next time he saw them, the students were like zombies, walking around in a shocked daze. They had been totally unaware. |
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MorgolKing
Joined: 18 May 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Troll_Bait wrote: |
Actually, many young Koreans are unaware of the gulags and other human-rights abuses in North Korea.
I had an interesting conversation with someone who teaches at another university. Once, as a joke, he said, "Anyone who forgets to do their homework again will be sent to North Korea." (He admitted that it was a bad joke.) The students' response? "Fine." He came to be aware, through conversations with them, that they thought that North Korea was quite similar to South Korea. So he assigned them some homework. Do a search for websites using the keywords "North Korea" and "gulags." He explicitly instructed them to use English-language search engines, not Korean ones, because Korean ones would not give up that kind of information. He said that the next time he saw them, the students were like zombies, walking around in a shocked daze. They had been totally unaware. |
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shoeboy
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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Good people don't have a monopoly on bravery. It seems like alot of you are using the argument that Nk is bad and therefore not brave. Why cant a person be brave for a negative cause?
So NK abuses human rights, how does that make them cowardly? |
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MorgolKing
Joined: 18 May 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:36 am Post subject: |
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shoeboy read all the posts....the discussion progressed from n.korean acts aren't brave b/c they act up just enough to get attention but never enough to, nor is it there intention to engage other countries that they are so "bravely" standing up against
to
other misconceptions that seemingly tie in with s.korean youth perception that the north is "brave"
no one ever said b/c they're bad they're cowards |
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Callan
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| Also, how could the US get involved when they are stuck in the nightmare of Iraq, have problems with recruitment and have an over stretched military?? |
If the American war machine got moving they could pave just about any piece of real estate on the planet. Hasn't got anything to do with the country they would be fighting, except that it might influence public opinion.
Sometimes I think Lil Kim just wants to make sure that while NK is going down the tubes everyone knows he's still a man and the country deserves respect. Sometimes I think the whole situation with South and North Korea is like an old married couple who fight a lot...looks bad from the outside, but from the inside they somehow understand it and are making it work. Then sometimes I worry that that guy is a lot crazier than I think he might be...I am talking loopier than Bush... |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.thefreedictionary.com/brave
Look at the 2nd meaning of the adjective form. They are definitely showy when it comes to military displays and whatnot...
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/brave?view=uk
Look at the origin of the word; "untamed...barbarous"
I'd say they are pretty brave, as well as unpredictable and brash.
They're like a person with a gun that has only one bullet pointed at 3-4 people with bigger guns and more ammunition |
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