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| The USA should get good at Rugby |
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| Total Votes : 10 |
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Satori

Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Location: Above it all
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:51 am Post subject: Re: The USA should get good at Rugby |
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| 4 months left wrote: |
| SPINOZA wrote: |
Americans seem to have a problem with Soccer because it's full of play-acting and less-than-manly behavior. I actually agree, even as a life-long Soccer fan.
But anyway, that's been covered too many times and doesn't require revisitation.
The question, the REAL question, is....why don't you get better at Rugby? Can't argue with Rugby. It's tough as hell and is of clear potential appeal to the neutral. It's discernible (has few if any difficult rules), it flows, has beauty, is exciting, uses video replays (so is fair) and is just a damn fine sport. I prefer Rugby League to (the more famous) Rugby Union personally (they're so similar yet so different) and it's open to question which form of Rugby ought to take precedence amongst US observers, if any (feel free to explore that too).
Why not do Rugby, big time? Too into your own sports? Serious enquiry. Rugby is awesome. Not liking Soccer is fair enough - there's a genuine cultural divide there, I feel - but there seems little excuse to not get Rugby. Granted Rugby is nowhere near as popular in Europe as Soccer, but its audience is still substantial. |
It all comes down to the forward pass. I've played tons of different sports and played wide receiver and tight end ( both positions are the guy who catches the ball) in high school. Catching a pass is one of the greatest things in sports and also one of the most beautiful things to watch in sports. Unless you've done it before, you don't know how great it is.
I think rugby is a good game but flipping the ball back and running isn't the greatest thing. |
It's the absence of the forward pass that makes rugby so brilliant, that's what makes it a running game, and forces teams to string long series of passes together cause you can't just hoof it down the feild in one pass...you get longer sections of flowing play in rugby because of this... |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:53 am Post subject: |
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What is this crap of foreigners going on and on about us changing our sports?
I can't help but think it's an inferiority complex. |
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4 months left

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:54 am Post subject: Re: The USA should get good at Rugby |
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| Satori wrote: |
| 4 months left wrote: |
| SPINOZA wrote: |
Americans seem to have a problem with Soccer because it's full of play-acting and less-than-manly behavior. I actually agree, even as a life-long Soccer fan.
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It all comes down to the forward pass. I've played tons of different sports and played wide receiver and tight end ( both positions are the guy who catches the ball) in high school. Catching a pass is one of the greatest things in sports and also one of the most beautiful things to watch in sports. Unless you've done it before, you don't know how great it is.
I think rugby is a good game but flipping the ball back and running isn't the greatest thing. |
It's the absence of the forward pass that makes rugby so brilliant, that's what makes it a running game, and forces teams to string long series of passes together cause you can't just hoof it down the feild in one pass...you get longer sections of flowing play in rugby because of this... |
Like I said, if you've never done it, you don't know how great it is. |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:57 am Post subject: |
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I obviously didn't read all the normal Otis crap, but I do agree with what 120 days, more or less--probably more, left said about the forward pass. That is the reason why when kids in America play football in the lot next door there are no running backs and no linesmen--everybody wants to be a receiver, or at least a wingback(check your playbooks boys).
At the same time, I am going to encourage my kids to play soccer because it will give them the kind of fitness that I think is best for a normal human being(I would like to avoid the possibility of having a 12 year old, 100kg son who begs me to buy more eggs and protein shake powder because coach says he might make second string line if he just bulks up a little more...), but if I happen to have the misfortune of raising an animal who wants to gouge and tear, I will suggest rugby. More action, more flow, more grit and no pads.
It's just a better game. And it's for men, not monsters. |
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jurassic5

Joined: 02 Apr 2003 Location: PA
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| flotsam wrote: |
At the same time, I am going to encourage my kids to play soccer because it will give them the kind of fitness that I think is best for a normal human being |
yeah..im gonna encourage my kids to play soccer too (better chances to play professionally somewhere )
the US does play rugby...we're just not good at it. the loss to england in 1999 by the score of 106-8 probably didn't win over too many fans...but maybe the shellacking of Barbados the other week will help (91-0).  |
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Satori

Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Location: Above it all
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:10 am Post subject: Re: The USA should get good at Rugby |
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| 4 months left wrote: |
| Satori wrote: |
| 4 months left wrote: |
| SPINOZA wrote: |
Americans seem to have a problem with Soccer because it's full of play-acting and less-than-manly behavior. I actually agree, even as a life-long Soccer fan.
. |
It all comes down to the forward pass. I've played tons of different sports and played wide receiver and tight end ( both positions are the guy who catches the ball) in high school. Catching a pass is one of the greatest things in sports and also one of the most beautiful things to watch in sports. Unless you've done it before, you don't know how great it is.
I think rugby is a good game but flipping the ball back and running isn't the greatest thing. |
It's the absence of the forward pass that makes rugby so brilliant, that's what makes it a running game, and forces teams to string long series of passes together cause you can't just hoof it down the feild in one pass...you get longer sections of flowing play in rugby because of this... |
Like I said, if you've never done it, you don't know how great it is. |
I'm sure it feels good, I'm talking about what looks good at a spectator sport... |
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otis

Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:14 am Post subject: |
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This is what football taught me:
It taught me that I no longer wanted to play football.
But in my senior year, John Ehret won the state championship. We were ranked in the top ten by Sports Illustrated. The top ten in the nation.
Our quarterback wasn't Kordell Stewart. He played the year after that. It was a dude named Leonard Moon who played in Canada, but later blew his knee out. He came back to Louisiana and opened a deli.
Our coach went on to play a few years for the Saints as a starting quarterback during the NFL strike. After the strike, he was second string to Bobby Hebert. He went on to open a Hooters. He lost it eventually. He had a gambling problem, and when the casinos opened, he'd be at Bally's playing 500 bucks a roll at craps.
Our team was made up of nothing but blacks and white oil-field trash. We had a couple of Vietnamese who rode the bench. And racism was still alive back then. We used to beat the crap out of each other. Blacks and white-trash never back down from each other. Neither group wants to end up on the bottom end of the ladder. So we used to fight tooth and nail.
But we came together as team. It was almost like a movie. Nobody made it big. But we were one of the top ten teams in the nation with a gambling coach who liked to get laid--a lot.
Was there anything special about these days? Not a thing. Like I said, I learned I didn't want to play football. And I learned I wanted to get far away from John Ehret.
Sometimes I still visit the friends. We're all just blue-collar trash. But we've mellowed. We have kids. We're pushing forty.
But I certainly don't miss those days.
Football taught me absolutely nothing--except stupidity and false bravado. But sometimes stupidity and false bravado can carry you in life.
It certainly beats being a liberal vegan. |
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Satori

Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Location: Above it all
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| otis wrote: |
It certainly beats being a liberal vegan. |
Almost anything does! |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005 Location: $eoul
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
1. What is this crap of foreigners going on and on about us changing our sports?
2. I can't help but think it's an inferiority complex. |
(see numbers)
1. No-one's trying to change your sports. It's an enquiry. Personally, I think it'd be nice to see the US and Canada line up against the Aussies, England (or Great Britain in the case of Rugby League), the French, the Kiwis, the South Africans. The very vocal American critics of Soccer complain it's too wussy and too boring. Well, what's your problem with Rugby? Pretty reasonable question. Otis has done well in this thread - he's answered the question with his own, serious view.
2. You keep on telling yourself that buddy. That way, when anyone ever asks a question about America that you don't like the sound of or don't know the answer to, you can always refer to that. The fact that Americans (even pretty moderate commentators like yourself, Yataboy) are very quick to leap on the "we're a superpower, you've an inferiority complex" smacks of an inferiority complex of sorts. It's enough to make a cat laugh! I've been to the US 3 times and, whilst it's obviously a great country, I do not recall coming across anything that ought to make an Englishman feel inferior and I assume the same goes for the millions of French, German, Italian, Japanese visitors to the country. A Brit having an inferiority complex about America is like Socrates having an inferiority complex towards Plato. Ain't gonna happen in a month of Sundays!
Last edited by SPINOZA on Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| SPINOZA wrote: |
| A Brit having an inferiority complex about America is like Socrates having an inferiority complex towards Plato. Ain't gonna happen in a month of Sundays! |
Let's fight a war. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005 Location: $eoul
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| poker player wrote: |
God Spinoza you just don't get it. I played rugby or as we call it in 1. Canada rugger to keep myself in shape for football-real football not soccer. But most of the people i played with were Welsh, I mean it's just not a sport played in America. You say it's tough as hell? Sure it's a tough game and I loved the camraderie and violence but compared to football it has no appeal in America and it is no way near as tough as football. America's sport is football because it's the 2. toughest sport in the world and that's the truth.
Quit trying to take the spotlight off the ultimate pussification of sport known in America as soccer. |
(see bold and numbers)
1. Jesus effing Christ! Please, please don't tell me you're from Canada and here you are defending US sports as the best! Is there ANY interesting difference between the US and US-Lite? Doesn't sound like it to me - that gets ever more apparent. Why don't you just be one country?
2. A staunch emphasis on toughness I see. You don't feel that skill, finesse, artistry, aestheticism have any place in sports? |
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poker player

Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Location: On the river
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| SPINOZA wrote: |
| Why don't you just be one country? |
That'd be fine with me
| SPINOZA wrote: |
| A staunch emphasis on toughness I see. You don't feel that skill, finesse, artistry, aestheticism have any place in sports? |
Sure-if you're a woman |
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flakfizer

Joined: 12 Nov 2004 Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| SPINOZA wrote: |
2. You keep on telling yourself that buddy. That way, when anyone ever asks a question about America that you don't like the sound of or don't know the answer to, you can always refer to that. The fact that Americans (even pretty moderate commentators like yourself, Yataboy) are very quick to leap on the "we're a superpower, you've an inferiority complex" smacks of an inferiority complex of sorts.
It's enough to make a cat laugh! I've been to the US 3 times and, whilst it's obviously a great country, I do not recall coming across anything that ought to make an Englishman feel inferior and I assume the same goes for the millions of French, German, Italian, Japanese visitors to the country. A Brit having an inferiority complex about America is like Socrates having an inferiority complex towards Plato. Ain't gonna happen in a month of Sundays! |
So you're likening Britain to a small, bald guy who liked boys and killed himself? Just kidding. I love Socrates. Anyway, the US certainly does not suffer from any inferiority complex. What possible reason could there be to do so? Britons on the other hand, seem to suffer from an inferiority complex, not in regards to the US necessarily, but in regards to their own past. Sometimes it seems that maintaining a rather pointless monarchy where the queen is the titular "head of the commonwealth" is just a way to be reminded of the glorious Empire. |
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Dan The Chainsawman

Joined: 05 May 2005
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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For those of us on the know about the development of rugby in America I can say that it has swelled in popularity over the last 10 to 15 years. Being a 4 and a half year veteran of my University Club team I had the delight to play colleges that were easily 3 to 4 times the size of my own.
For instance: we regularly played University of Washington, Washington State University, and Oregon State University.
In America we ruggers play in our league according to skill, not the size of your school. This allowed us to play well out of our traditional league, whilst out football team ran about their field like a bunch of whiny pansies playing schools we used to laugh at over on our pitch.
Rugby has been growing in popularity, and given 10 more years it will have its own solid niche in the American sports market. God forbiding another WW2, which is where the bulk of the American Rugby talent was slaughtered 50 plus years ago, I suspect it might be another 20 to 30 years before we see the USA as a prime contender for the WC. |
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sojukettle
Joined: 23 Aug 2005 Location: Not there, HERE!
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Recent news on rugby involving America......
Only in America could a business tycoon who specialises in buying sporting franchises propose a 'modified' sevens tournament and turn it into a reality TV show set amid a "high roller" Las Vegas environment.
The tournament will be staged in the Orleans Arena, a 9,500 seat indoor stadium in Nevada, Las Vegas, home to the Las Vegas Wranglers Ice hockey team. And of course the stadium is located in the Orleans Hotel/Casino. The playing field will be reduced to 60 (54.864 metres) yards long by 40 (36.576 metres) yards wide and has been described as being "Race Track Rugby, the ideal format for Sportsbook and paramutual wagering."
The reality TV aspect of the event will be packaged into episode format and is intended to: "take viewers behind the scenes with players so they can witness the real-life dramas that unfold in the glitzy 'high roller' atmosphere of Las Vegas."
Entrepreneur Bill Tatham of Fresno, California, whose family has owned franchises in the NBA, USFL, and WFL, is head of the American Rugby Football League and owner of the rights to all professionalised American sevens events.
Canada will take confidence from the naming of its strongest international test XV in recent years as the 28 man squad prepares for the crucial final World Cup qualifying match against their American archrivals.
The Canadian selectors have been able to call upon 13 overseas-based professional players including new faces to Canada's 2006 campaign, lock Mike James, flanker Jamie Cudmore and prop Kevin Tkachuk who played for the Barbarians last month. Adding an extra edge to the old North American rugby rivalry is the recent Canadian win over the Eagles at the Churchill Cup in June. Canada bucked a trend in recent years of extremely tight scorelines by winning their last showdown 33-18.
Nonetheless the Eagles will be encouraged by the recent return of record point scorer, pivot Mike Hercus who featured strongly in the American's record 91-0 defeat of Barbados earlier this month.
The neighbouring nations played their first of 41 tests to date in 1977; Canada holds the ascendancy boasting a 28 win, 12 loss, 1 draw record |
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