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huck
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject: Another grammar question |
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Why do they say "England are a good team"? Why is it plural?
When you're talking about a team, shouldn't it be singular?
I would say "The Yankees don't really bother me", but I'd also say "Kansas City has a chance to win the World Series this year."
I've always used the mascots as plural and the team name as singular... |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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They're English/Brit/Aussie/Kiwi... they don't know any better.  They also tend to make the simple word "no" into a two-syllable utterance. |
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Delirium's Brother
Joined: 08 May 2006
Location: Out in that field with Rumi, waiting for you to join us!
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| That is an example of dialect variation. In British English collective nouns are plural. In American English they are usually singular (but there are exceptions). |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Delirium's Brother wrote: |
| That is an example of dialect variation. In British English collective nouns are plural. In American English they are usually singular (but there are exceptions). |
Correct.
My family are coming tomorrow.
Manchester United are a good team.
Pink Floyd are great.
I teach my students that both 'are' and is' are fine and they should say which ever they're most comfortable with. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| Wow, this is a lot easier than the other 'grammar question' thread: that one makes my brain turn inside out! |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:14 am Post subject: |
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Again, only my 2c---
Pink Floyd is great.
(the band, a single entity, is great.)
Pink Floyd are great.
(the members of the band Pink Floyd are great.)
The government isn't interested.
(the authority we call the government is not interested.)
The government aren't interested.
(the people who form the government are not interested.)
I tell my students that either usage is alright as long as they are consistent. I agree that using the plural is more common in the UK and the singular is usual in NA.
Ken:> |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| Moldy Rutabaga wrote: |
Again, only my 2c---
Pink Floyd is great.
(the band, a single entity, is great.)
Pink Floyd are great.
(the members of the band Pink Floyd are great.)
The government isn't interested.
(the authority we call the government is not interested.)
The government aren't interested.
(the people who form the government are not interested.)
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This is the standard American rule, iirc.
As with all things American, it makes much more sense than the other options. You should teach your students, as I do, that American usage is the only proper form, and that Brits and others have changed English due to poor national education.  |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| Qinella wrote: |
| Moldy Rutabaga wrote: |
Again, only my 2c---
Pink Floyd is great.
(the band, a single entity, is great.)
Pink Floyd are great.
(the members of the band Pink Floyd are great.)
The government isn't interested.
(the authority we call the government is not interested.)
The government aren't interested.
(the people who form the government are not interested.)
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This is the standard American rule, iirc.
As with all things American, it makes much more sense than the other options. You should teach your students, as I do, that American usage is the only proper form, and that Brits and others have changed English due to poor national education. |
I like it. In this thread people explain a simple English rule that Americans often seem to have difficulty with - and now an American comes along and steals the credit for it! I wouldn't normally stoop to this but you've gone too far:-
There. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:43 am Post subject: Re: Another grammar question |
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| huck wrote: |
I would say "The Yankees don't really bother me", but I'd also say "Kansas City has a chance to win the World Series this year."
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"Yankees" has an 's' at the end, so it looks plural, therefore we treat it as such. Kansas City is a single place on the map, so it gets singular grammar.
UK English tends to treat collective nouns as plural, even when they don't look that way. "The company are relocating in the spring" is fine for them. Sounds wierd to me. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| Privateer wrote: |
| Qinella wrote: |
| Moldy Rutabaga wrote: |
Again, only my 2c---
Pink Floyd is great.
(the band, a single entity, is great.)
Pink Floyd are great.
(the members of the band Pink Floyd are great.)
The government isn't interested.
(the authority we call the government is not interested.)
The government aren't interested.
(the people who form the government are not interested.)
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This is the standard American rule, iirc.
As with all things American, it makes much more sense than the other options. You should teach your students, as I do, that American usage is the only proper form, and that Brits and others have changed English due to poor national education. |
I like it. In this thread people explain a simple English rule that Americans often seem to have difficulty with - and now an American comes along and steals the credit for it! I wouldn't normally stoop to this but you've gone too far:-
There. |
Yer just jealous of my passport. |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:37 am Post subject: |
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But I'm a Canadian!  (even worse..)
Again, I don't mean to imply that one usage is better than the other. Labor or labour. But be consistent.
Ken:> |
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Hyeon Een
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Another grammar question |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
UK English tends to treat collective nouns as plural, even when they don't look that way. "The company are relocating in the spring" is fine for them. Sounds wierd to me. |
In that case, I think 99% of Brits would say "The company's relocating.." (so 'is' not 'are') If you used 'are' you would sound weird. Though it wouldn't be wrong. You would sound like an old-fashioned English teacher if you said "the company are relocating"
Now how about a much more important question, do you use an Oxford comma and if so, why? I don't because I think they look ugly. |
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