Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Axl Rose]

[kermo]

[Dan The Chainsawman]

Sometimes you can learn progressively from your 'hook ups' or in many cases you just do the same thing 300 or so times with no real improvement.

[drumpounder]

[RACETRAITOR]

Women can basically choose any man they want, so if one guy doesn't treat them right, they can easily replace him. It's up to the man to act appropriately because he's expendable and replaceable. Of course there is more than one way to do this. Using chivalry is one, and probably not the best. Being a lying scumbag gets better temporary results.

[drumpounder]

[drumpounder]

Just as an aside, any guy who has played and gone on the road in a half assed successful rock band can attest to the groupie thing. Especially in the days prior to anyone ever having heard the word AIDS. And it's only sex for god's sake. Have some fun, let loose, let your hair down and party. This game called life has gotten way to serious. I blame the 80's.

[Moldy Rutabaga]

Ken's thesis: where he really gets flamed.

I'm proud of the responders -- and a little surprised that it hasn't turned into a gender war, so far at least. The author has basically said that the entire modern feminist movement is a mistake for trying to grab both the Germanic concept of equality and the Romantic idea of chivalry and wringing the benefits but not the responsibilities out of them. The woman wants the door held open for her, but she wants to be promoted ahead of the man who held the door because the sisterhood has suffered at the hands of the patriarchy.

Partly it's true, but I think the author has the symptoms right and the disease wrong. I don't think feminism itself is wrong-- there were laudable ideas about improving the conditions and attitudes for females-- but its modern application in the west has turned into a culture of selfishness. I'm constantly hearing complaining about western women in this forum, that they're fat and unfeminine. But to me the underlying and subconscious complaint is that they don't take care to look attractive but expect to be wooed and put on pedestals, and the objection that many (not all) men here aren't realizing is to pride and not simple unattractiveness.

Men haven't helped. First, we haven't helped by the easy availability of pornography and the ever-presence of perfect models that have raised male expections to unrealistic levels. In other words, we've demanded that western women act and dress like porn stars, and then we've condemned them for it. Neither have we helped by promoting immature promiscuity as a heroic goal and then again blaming women for their flippancy and disloyalty. What did we expect-- a nation of Penelopes waiting faithfully for us while we slept around? At the same time, we've kept the double standards. When you turn 35 and you're single, if you're male you're still the lad; if you're female, here's your library card and your cat.

In other words, to me the fault of the west is not feminism but materialism in general which has encouraged an attitude of selfishness. And selfishness results in blaming the other party for everything. Many of us men (like me, I admit) are bitter about western women after being rejected or treated poorly countless times for not looking like Brad Pitt. But now in Korea we look back and make fun of those women for not looking like Jennifer Aniston. Both parties have turned love and commitment into products that you keep until an upgrade comes along.

[Mashimaro]

[Junior]

[Manner of Speaking]

[Axl Rose]

Some excellent points, Ken.

Elsewhere, at the beginning of this thread, there was the inevitable assumption that the author in the article in the OP, given his views, simply MUST be an ugly mysoginist who never gets laid.

It's weak and cliched to say that and, frankly, is suggestive of a person with very limited life experience and thus lives in a world of cliches. My best friend in Korea is the biggest woman-hater I've ever come across - he even disgusts me sometimes and, trust me, that's really saying something - and yet he's a handsome guy, gets women effortlessly and is an absolute womanizer.

That's just one individual, but in my view it's a mistake to view criticisms of women as indicative of being a flawed individual.....indeed, a man who doesn't live up to male standards of what a man should be. Very surprising to see MALES say these things, but typically such males are precisely the kinds of losers they criticize, whereas those truly comfortable with themselves say what the hell they like and don't give a damn about anyone's whineey PC opinion. Criticism of female behavior is crushed because any criticism whatsoever is deemed as never getting laid or being ugly - the biggest threats to masculinity.

[Hobophobic]

[Satori]

I don't know about chivalry, the word has too many complicated and questionable associations. I certainly believe courtesy, kindness, and consideration. I think I know how to treat a lady, and it sure ain't about money. Mine have always been very happy little pussy cats...

[Natalia]