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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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 Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| happeningthang wrote: |
| The Man known as The Man wrote: |
No.
The Canadain justice system is known worldwide for being unfair and punitive. |
Damn straight. They might as well change Canada's name to "Texas II, son of Walker". |
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AbbeFaria
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Natalia wrote: |
| Another example of why I am rapidly losing faith in the general sanity of the Canadian legal system came a few months ago. They now allow Indian Sikhs to carry daggers to school - 'religious reasons'. WTF?!. |
This is why political correctness is one of the most dangerous forms of social engineering since Communist Russia and Nazi Germany. Instead of just using common sense, we're brainwashed in the insanity of tolerance. People just loose their mind.
You do not have the right to not be offended. You can not bring a weapon in to school and stuff your religion. If you don't like it, that's just too bad.
Why is that so hard to say?
�S� |
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antoniothegreat
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Location: Yangpyeong
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| Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| Isn't this exactly what Reverse Racism is? If that was a father with his 6 year old daughter, he would go to jail for 20 years, be labeled a "sick sick man, a burden to society" and everyone would be talking about the mental harm the daughter would have for her entire life. I like how the article even makes it like the internet love buddy coaxed her into doing it. It wasn't her fault, it was the man's. But a woman does it, and we all have to ask "is it her fault? She is disabled..." WTF |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| AbbeFaria wrote: |
| Natalia wrote: |
| Another example of why I am rapidly losing faith in the general sanity of the Canadian legal system came a few months ago. They now allow Indian Sikhs to carry daggers to school - 'religious reasons'. WTF?!. |
This is why political correctness is one of the most dangerous forms of social engineering since Communist Russia and Nazi Germany. Instead of just using common sense, we're brainwashed in the insanity of tolerance. People just loose their mind.
You do not have the right to not be offended. You can not bring a weapon in to school and stuff your religion. If you don't like it, that's just too bad.
Why is that so hard to say?
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Umm, well look at this then you anti-democratic fiend you...
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Announcing the judgement, the Supreme Court said that a total ban on kirpans violated the country's Charter of Rights.
The charter guarantees total religious freedom within Canada.
"Religious tolerance is a very important value of Canadian society," Justice Louise Charron wrote in the judgement.
"If some students consider it unfair that Gurbaj Singh may wear his kirpan to school, it is incumbent on the schools to discharge their obligation to instil in their students this value that is... at the very foundation of our democracy."
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4770744.stm
"Foundation of democracy" M*tha F*cka!! Hear of it!!
(By the way that's a riff on Samueal Jackson, not me losing it) |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| OP I think your anger is misplaced. The woman has cerebral palsy. The man who persuaded her to do what she did was in full possession of his faculties so he's the real sicko and deserves to have his balls cut off. |
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AbbeFaria
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| happeningthang wrote: |
| AbbeFaria wrote: |
| Natalia wrote: |
| Another example of why I am rapidly losing faith in the general sanity of the Canadian legal system came a few months ago. They now allow Indian Sikhs to carry daggers to school - 'religious reasons'. WTF?!. |
This is why political correctness is one of the most dangerous forms of social engineering since Communist Russia and Nazi Germany. Instead of just using common sense, we're brainwashed in the insanity of tolerance. People just loose their mind.
You do not have the right to not be offended. You can not bring a weapon in to school and stuff your religion. If you don't like it, that's just too bad.
Why is that so hard to say?
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Umm, well look at this then you anti-democratic fiend you...
| Quote: |
Announcing the judgement, the Supreme Court said that a total ban on kirpans violated the country's Charter of Rights.
The charter guarantees total religious freedom within Canada.
"Religious tolerance is a very important value of Canadian society," Justice Louise Charron wrote in the judgement.
"If some students consider it unfair that Gurbaj Singh may wear his kirpan to school, it is incumbent on the schools to discharge their obligation to instil in their students this value that is... at the very foundation of our democracy."
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4770744.stm
"Foundation of democracy" M*tha F*cka!! Hear of it!!
(By the way that's a riff on Samueal Jackson, not me losing it) |
So if muslims want to introduce Shariah Law in their neighborhoods in Canada and start stoning women who show some leg and slitting the throats of their daughters who they think might have had sex, as was the case in Britian a year or so ago, this is okay with you because it's in the name of their religion?
You can have religious tolerance and still maintain your common sense. Schools should be a place with no weapons, period. Just because your God says you can have one, doesn't mean your religion trumps the hundreds of other students there who might now be put in a threatining situation if one of them decides to use their dagger in a dangerous way.
�S� |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| Privateer wrote: |
| OP I think your anger is misplaced. The woman has cerebral palsy. The man who persuaded her to do what she did was in full possession of his faculties so he's the real sicko and deserves to have his balls cut off. |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought Cerebral Palsy was a physical problem, and did not affect one's intelligence, unlike mental retardation. |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| happeningthang wrote: |
| The woman's got cerebral palsy, which means she could be mentally not all there. |
Cerebral Palsy is a physical disability. Mentally, there will be nothing wrong with this woman. I'm pretty sure Stephen Hawking has Cerbral Palsy......? |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| AbbeFaria wrote: |
So if muslims want to introduce Shariah Law in their neighborhoods in Canada and start stoning women who show some leg and slitting the throats of their daughters who they think might have had sex, as was the case in Britian a year or so ago, this is okay with you because it's in the name of their religion?
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Oh,yes, absolutely!! I would happily endorse murder and oppression because I don't want to offend killers and I think of them as equals.
That's such a stupid question, a ridiculous comparison, and is in no way related to religious freedom. That's murdering idiots acting outside of both law and religion, who are subject to punishment by both. The Canadian Charter provides for freedom of religious practice, not psychos committing murder with religion as it's motivation. What is wrong with you? You can't see that??
| AbbeFaria wrote: |
You can have religious tolerance and still maintain your common sense. Schools should be a place with no weapons, period. Just because your God says you can have one, doesn't mean your religion trumps the hundreds of other students there who might now be put in a threatining situation if one of them decides to use their dagger in a dangerous way.
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Yeah schools should be a place without weapons. So then why is it the NY public school system has more metal detectors than some continents do? If someone wants to bring a weapon into school it's not exactly impossible to do. This kid has to wear his knife sealed, and out of reach. There are more threatening things in easy reach of students if they want to create, "a threatening situation", and act in a, "dangerous way". You're being hysterical.
| Quote: |
The high court says if the kirpan is sealed and hidden under clothes, there is little chance that students could use it as a weapon. "There are many objects in schools that could be used to commit violent acts and that are much more easily obtained by students, such as scissors, pencils and baseball bats," writes Madam Justice Charron.
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/kirpan/
Sounds like a compromise to me, and should keep most people happy. How about you Abbe?
I could see you had a point if you said, people were being treated differently and dividing society into different groups, that an endorsement, of having a weapon sets a dangerous precedent, but all I'm hearing is that you don't like political correctness. Let's argue about something real instead of inventing superficial hurts.
| tiger fancini wrote: |
Cerebral Palsy is a physical disability. Mentally, there will be nothing wrong with this woman. I'm pretty sure Stephen Hawking has Cerbral Palsy......?
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Sure, you're right. It doesn't always have an impact on mental ability, but it can. That's why I said "could". In any case, I only mentioned that to make the point that it was information we don't have, and the judge did. I think Natalia's right when she says the woman seems mentally capable. |
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AbbeFaria
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| happeningthang wrote: |
| AbbeFaria wrote: |
So if muslims want to introduce Shariah Law in their neighborhoods in Canada and start stoning women who show some leg and slitting the throats of their daughters who they think might have had sex, as was the case in Britian a year or so ago, this is okay with you because it's in the name of their religion?
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Oh,yes, absolutely!! I would happily endorse murder and oppression as long as some god, somewhere says it's OK!
That's such a stupid question, and a ridiculous comparison, and is in no way related to religious freedom. That's murdering idiots acting outside both law and religion who are subject to punishment by both. The Canadian Charter provides for freedom of religious practice, not psychos committing murder in their version of religion. What is wrong with you? You can't see that??
| AbbeFaria wrote: |
You can have religious tolerance and still maintain your common sense. Schools should be a place with no weapons, period. Just because your God says you can have one, doesn't mean your religion trumps the hundreds of other students there who might now be put in a threatining situation if one of them decides to use their dagger in a dangerous way.
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Yeah schools should be a place without weapons. So then why is it the NY public school system has more metal detectors than some continents do? I don't understand why you'd choose to complain bout a kid wearing a ceremonial knife, sealed and out of reach, when people in this world bring guns to school. There are more threatening things in easy reach of students if they want to create, "a threatening situation", and act in a, "dangerous way". You're being hysterical. |
In for a penny in for a pound. Schools in NY have metal detectors to prevent the weapons from getting in. I would think it would be fairly obvious. The school board didn't say "well we can allow small weapons, nothing more than a single shot pistol or knives with 3 inch blades or smaller" and then set up the metal detectors to only keep out larger weapons. It's to keep them ALL out. Because a school should be a place WITHOUT weapons. No matter the size or apparent inaccessibility to get at them. A weapon is a weapon. The people who seek this right do not have the right to circumvent the law that's in place for every other canadian citizen. That's the problem with the entire thing. It's irrelevant that forks and pens can also be used as weapons, daggers are classified AS weapons and have no right to be in the school. I don't care what their holy book says.
�S� |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| AbbeFaria wrote: |
In for a penny in for a pound. Schools in NY have metal detectors to prevent the weapons from getting in. I would think it would be fairly obvious. The school board didn't say "well we can allow small weapons, nothing more than a single shot pistol or knives with 3 inch blades or smaller" and then set up the metal detectors to only keep out larger weapons. It's to keep them ALL out. Because a school should be a place WITHOUT weapons. No matter the size or apparent inaccessibility to get at them. A weapon is a weapon. The people who seek this right do not have the right to circumvent the law that's in place for every other canadian citizen. That's the problem with the entire thing. It's irrelevant that forks and pens can also be used as weapons, daggers are classified AS weapons and have no right to be in the school. I don't care what their holy book says.
�S� |
Bugger! You replied while I was editing my first post. Ah well...
OK Fair enough. I was trying to say there are greater dangers than this kid having his kirpan dagger with the metal detector comment. Alright, so you're upset because this gives a certain group of people a right, or an exemption, where others are obliged to follow it.
| Quote: |
| The people who seek this right do not have the right to circumvent the law that's in place for every other canadian citizen. |
And that it's allowing a weapon (or the idea of a weapon) into schools.
| Quote: |
| It's irrelevant that forks and pens can also be used as weapons, daggers are classified AS weapons and have no right to be in the school. |
All good points and resonable concerns.
You say that the weapons shouldn't be in school. OK. I believe, that if we're honest with each other, we can both agree that the actual danger of letting this, and other kids carry kirpans is minimal. They are sheathed, sealed, and under their clothes. There are other potential weapons easily available just as dangerous and even more so. So, really, there's no impending danger of violence. The issue of the idea of a weapon in schools is a different matter, but could be seen as a matter of semantics.
'It's a dagger', 'it's a religious token'. Couldn't you say that a pair of scissors becomes a weapon when used as such?
When you say...
| Quote: |
| The people who seek this right do not have the right to circumvent the law that's in place for every other canadian citizen. |
I don't understand the basis for this claim of yours.
They don't have the right to appeal to the courts? That's a bold statment and seems a bit totalitarian. I thought a democracy allowed anyone appeal to the courts. Why not these guys?
I think your concern is 'They shouldn't try to have rights different to other citizens'?
I think it's disconcerting that these kinds of issues create real differences between people, and even worse that they foster suspicion and contempt. Even envy for some as they look at something like this as giving privilege to others.
But really what are we supposed to do? If we say these guys can't wear kirpans, then we deny freedom of religion, their individualism, pursuit of happiness. (I know it's a Yank thing, but I don't know what the Canuck equivalent is.)
I think everyone in this case has done the right thing. The kid's not doing any harm carrying his religious dagger, the mother was right to be concerned and tell school officials. School officials were right to send the kid home, the Dad was right to insist that his kid be raised in his religion. It's the correct thing to try and address the issue in the courts and it's right to accept the decision. Parents were concerned, the school responded to that, the courts gave a ruling. Everyone playing their role in coming to a considered decision. The danger is minimal, it's important to Canadian democracy that religious freedom is upheld...so we make an exception in this case, with provisions.
So, now, it IS the law that this kid can wear his kirpan. To my mind this is something to cheer for, because it means democracy can tolerate difference within it's midst by weighing up danger and benefit.
To my mind - if you have issues with this then you have issues with;
Freedom of Religion and it's part in individual rights.
or
The Canadian Charter for allowing Freedom of Religion
or
The judiciary as a way of determining law and interpreting the Charter.
How do your concerns relate to these issues, if at all?
Last edited by happeningthang on Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| tiger fancini wrote: |
| happeningthang wrote: |
| The woman's got cerebral palsy, which means she could be mentally not all there. |
Cerebral Palsy is a physical disability. Mentally, there will be nothing wrong with this woman. I'm pretty sure Stephen Hawking has Cerbral Palsy......? |
Stephen Hawking has:
Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS, sometimes called Lou Gehrig's disease, Maladie de Charcot or motor neurone disease) is a progressive, almost invariably fatal neurological disease.
In ALS, Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, both the upper motor neurons and the lower motor neurons degenerate or die, ceasing to send messages to muscles. Unable to function, the muscles gradually weaken, waste away (atrophy), and have fasciculations because of denervation. Eventually, the ability of the brain to start and control voluntary movement is lost. However, even patients in advanced stages of the disease may retain the same intelligence, memory, and personality they had before its onset.
Cerebral Palsy:
Cerebral palsy or CP is the most common childhood physical disability. It is a permanent physical condition that affects movement. |
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