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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| Kidnapping soldiers is not necessarily an attempt to destroy Israel. |
No, it is not, per se. But deliberately provoking an Israeli response in the hopes of uniting the Arab world against "the Zionist occupation regime" is.
| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| I'm unsure of the magnitude of [Israel's] response. |
I agree.
| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| There needs to be a recognized Palestinian state, I believe, before all of this can be sorted out proper. |
I thought that that was what we were doing, and Israel was complying, by withdrawing from Gaza.
I do not believe that solving the Palestinian issue will solve the Arab-Israeli conflict.
Most of the Arabs refuse to coexist with Israel. And I do not know the solution to that problem.
| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| Did the Lebanese government order the kidnappings? |
I don't believe anyone thinks this.
| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| Or was it a rogue action? |
I don't believe -- and I don't think too many others do, by the way -- that Hezbollah acted alone in this.
| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| Perhaps we'll never know for certain... |
No we won't, and on a whole score of things, as long as Hamas, Hezbollah, the Syrian and Iranian regimes, and Chavez in Venezuela do not allow for an oppositionist press (like our New York Times, for example), do not declassify documents, and do not hold hostile and oppositionist Congressional hearings into their govts' foreign policies, secret agreements, and covert operations... |
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Apple Scruff
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Palestine elected Hamas into power. They don't deserve our pity. They certainly don't get it from me. |
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Captain Courageous
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Location: Bundang and loving it
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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Some of the wild jingoistic ignorance in this thread is making my head spin.  |
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Apple Scruff
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Courageous wrote: |
| Some of the wild jingoistic ignorance in this thread is making my head spin. |
Hey, I like rooting for the underdog, too, unless the underdog is a fanatical banana brain who cries foul when the other guy protests the shrapnel in his mocha latte. |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:05 pm Post subject: yes |
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The arabs say we're going to hell.
The jews say we're going to hell.
Damn, we be in big trouble!!! |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
It's kind of boring that so many people think America should do the right thing in every situation, and that in complicated situations the right thing could be so clear and easily accomplished.
We don't listen to the Palestinians because we stopped caring about them after Clinton made his offer in '99 and Arafat refused. And Israel is an important ally. What does Palestine have to offer? |
what does israel have to offer?
Economically speaking it has something to offer, but otherwise? |
Ahm. Let's see, ideological reasons is all that comes to mind. But that doesn't help sell me, seems ideology has gotten us into trouble before.
Erm. I got nothing.  |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| deadman wrote: |
Living a good and inspiring life is definately to be commended, especially if it leads to other people doing the same.
Evenagelical Christians, however, are a mixed blessing.
It is evident that some elements of the Christian Church are corrupt, both historically and today.
Historically, the Inquisition, and today, you sometimes hear of priests being charged with crimes related to their participation in Satanic rituals and practices.
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And worse...sexual abuse, stealing and so on.
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Since there exist elements of both good and evil inside the church, it is essential that a responsible and genuine practitioner of the Christian faith has mechanisms for discerning between the two. This becomes doubly important if the person is actively, or aggressively, spreading their beliefs. Unfortunately, the Christians most likely to be evangelical, are also likely to be zealous to the point where they have no mechanism to question what they are told, and therefor there is a DANGER that they could become agents spreading confusion, or evil at worst. They might be spreading love, or spreading poison.
That is why Evangelical Christians must be apraoched with caution, and strongly opposed if they are ignorantly spreading false or corrupt teachings. |
I guess it depends on what outlook you are taking it from? Jesus warned against sectarianism. Paul encouraged the church to pray for those who preached out of selfish ambition. If you are, then you are called to pray for them, but not physically oppose them. However, there could be instances where force would be necessary, such in the case as the Branch Dividians or the Bob Jones incident to prevent horrible outcomes.
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| This is before you even consider politics. There are earthly agencies who promote spiritually questionable or corrupt ideologies to further their own political goals, eg Bush claiming the God tells him to invade this country or that country. |
If you look at other biblical examples, then you will see the mistakes of King David outweigh that of Bush, but yet God called him a man after his own heart. How do you know his heart and motivations? I personally believe he has made some big mistakes, but in the middle of it, his aim is to please God.
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| Fiveeagles, in reading your posts and occasionally posting back and forth, it is my opinion that you have no capability for evaluating the religious input you recieve, and are therefore and unguided spiritual missile, more likely to harm innocent bystanders than take out the evil you are aiming at. |
Have we talked more than once?
As an example of what I mean, let me use quote a point you made on another issue.
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So Bonhoeffer existed in a time when a faith different to his own was being systematically dehumanised, and demonised, as a preparation for making war, of sorts, on them. He was courageous enough to resist those efforts and defend the humanity of all, not participate in the vilification of those who he might easily see as his enemies.
We live in similar times today. The middle east is a complex situation, but it is being overly simplified by the dehumanising, and demonising of another faith, in this case Islam, so that war can be made on them with little dissent from the general public. |
I agree that the middle east is a complex issue and needs to talked about. However, it seems to be a move towards sympathy towards terrorists in which I think is dangerous. Personally, I don't know your stance on this issue since you didn't discuss your thoughts further on the other thread...I don't know. I agree that your religion is being hijacked by radical individuals and I am saddened that the moderates cannot be heard in the noise of the violence.
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| Fiveagles, are you taking a courageous stand to defend the humanity of ALL of Gods children, or are you joining in the persecution? Are you emulating Bonhoeffer, or are you taking the opposite position to him and assisting the simplifying, generalising, dehumanising process in order to strike a deadly blow at your "enemies"? |
I am looking forward to the day when Egypt and Syria fulfill the prophesy where they will come to Israel to worship Yahweh. My hope is that the brothers of Israel will take their rightful place beside Israel and sing in worship rather than kill one another.
What about you?
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| fiveeagles, on another thread wrote: |
| They want to kill us because we are infidels. |
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And you think the terrorists are about what?
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I think you accidentally missed the fact that you were talking to two people, cerulean808 and myself, but no harm done.
I was too quick to slap you with the racist tag, it would have been fairer to say you made a racist generalisation. |
Like I have previously said, maybe you misunderstood me? |
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