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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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 Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:15 am Post subject: I REALLY hate... |
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| the way people are increasingly using religion to define themselves and everyone else. It is NOT a healthy development and I wish it would stop. I'm not very impressed with the tenets of the Judeo-Christian culture I grew up in and am even less impressed with the tenets of other cultures' nightmares. (My theory of religious revelation: someone put too much mayo on their late evening snack and had bad dreams as a result of indigestion. A regretable experience, but not a reason for me to map out my life according to your discomfort.) |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:23 am Post subject: |
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And your message to Muslims is.....?????
If you can articulate it, I challenge you to visit Riyadh (sorry Mecca is off limits to the infidels) and pass out flyers with your theories....
Just be sure you buy your travel and funeral insurance ahead of time. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| This year's award for most vague and meaningless thread goes to..... |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:28 am Post subject: |
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And your message to sundubuman is.....?????
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What is the attraction for you of life in the gutter? Why do you want the rest of us to climb down there with you? |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:41 am Post subject: Re: I REALLY hate... |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| the way people are increasingly using religion to define themselves and everyone else. It is NOT a healthy development and I wish it would stop. I'm not very impressed with the tenets of the Judeo-Christian culture I grew up in and am even less impressed with the tenets of other cultures' nightmares. (My theory of religious revelation: someone put too much mayo on their late evening snack and had bad dreams as a result of indigestion. A regretable experience, but not a reason for me to map out my life according to your discomfort.) |
I think you have a point there...it's not only an unhealthy development, but also quite frankly a somewhat boring one. I've noticed that there are a few individuals on this forum who seem to define themselves as only 100% anti-Moslem. That's their whole personality, the be-all and the end-all of it.
It's strange...if these individuals were not anti-Moslem, they'd have no personality to speak of at all. Certainly they don't seem to be able to TALK about anything else at all.
From an ecology-of-mind perspective, they seem to be the equivalent of one-celled organisms.  |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| I think you and Ya-ta would do better trying to prove such viewpoints wrong rather than slinging ad hominem. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: I REALLY hate... |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| the way people are increasingly using religion to define themselves and everyone else. It is NOT a healthy development and I wish it would stop. |
Neither is it healthy to speak in terms of "I really hate..."
But is apt to be used against those who define themselves by religions of LOVE (as considered by those who follow Christianity and Islam) |
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Delirium's Brother
Joined: 08 May 2006
Location: Out in that field with Rumi, waiting for you to join us!
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Love is God, not the other way around. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| This year's award for most vague ... |
I'm not surprised you find it vague. You seem only comfortable with defining people by the religion of the country of their birth. It would be much more confusing for you to consider that men are sons, brothers (older and younger), husbands, fathers, brother-in-laws, employees, members of clubs, students of one subject or another, hobbyists...and maybe a member of a religion.
To simplifiy it all down into just one factor is so over-simplified I can't find a good way to express it. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
I'm not surprised you find it vague. You seem only comfortable with defining people by the religion of the country of their birth. It would be much more confusing for you to consider that men are sons, brothers (older and younger), husbands, fathers, brother-in-laws, employees, members of clubs, students of one subject or another, hobbyists...and maybe a member of a religion.
To simplifiy it all down into just one factor is so over-simplified I can't find a good way to express it. |
Ya-ta Boy,
Good points. And have you noticed as well that the Moslem-bashers don't really have anything positive to offer? Whatever their alleged grievances against Islam, they don't really seem to want the "Islamists" they hate to much to change. They just want them to sit there and "be hated".
It's a rather Korean attitude. Even if Islam and Moslems changed in a manner that would answer their 'grievances', they wouldn't be happy. Probably because there'd be nobody to hate anymore. It's as though the only way they can define themselves is by being 'against something else'.
I think if every Moslem in the Middle East suddenly converted and became Jewish, they would still find fault.
All so infantile and one-dimensional. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| don't really have anything positive to offer |
That's very true. In fact, other than pointing to yet another example of extremist rhetoric from yet another radical, they don't have much of anything to say themselves.
I can kind of see the sense in packing up a couple of dozen million people and shipping them back to where their ancestors came from because that would mean they aren't living in the house next door. But they are still living in the country next door. I don't see how that has solved the problem in any real way. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| Whatever their alleged grievances against Islam, they don't really seem to want the "Islamists" they hate to much to change. They just want them to sit there and "be hated". |
Quite a few strawmen clogging up this thread. As I have stated, on countless occasions, I don't really care what kind of medieval nonsense Muslims want to inflict on their own societies. What concerns me is when they try to bring such attitudes to the West, or when they engage in Jihadi activities against infidels. You are being woefully naive if you think that we can hope to change Muslim societies or 'Islamist' attitudes. That is up to Muslims themselves.
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| It's a rather Korean attitude. Even if Islam and Moslems changed in a manner that would answer their 'grievances', they wouldn't be happy. |
You have no basis for stating this, and you would do much better if you challenged my arguments, rather than putting up your own pathetic strawmen.
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| I think if every Moslem in the Middle East suddenly converted and became Jewish, they would still find fault. |
Try to peice together a cogent argument. I dare you!
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| All so infantile and one-dimensional. |
Infantile is running away from a debate because you do not have the knowledge or the intellect to refute the other's points. If you and Ya-ta would like to challenge anything I have written, specifically, then go ahead.
Of course, you could always stick to psyshoanalysis, strawmen and ad-hominem attacks. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| That's very true. In fact, other than pointing to yet another example of extremist rhetoric from yet another radical, they don't have much of anything to say themselves. |
I have stated, on quite a few occasions what Western countries should do in response to both Islamic terrorism and the problems caused by Muslim immigration.
1. Start developing new sources of energy, reducing our reliance on Middle East Oil. Without oil, such countries would be irrelevant.
2. End all foreign aid to any countries that support Jihadi activities or which practice any form of Shariah. Build alliances with countries that are free and open, and which are threatened by Jihadist activities (eg Southern Sudan, India, Thailand)
3. Massively reduce Muslim immigration to the West, and deport those with no right to be there.
4. Make it illegal for countries which practice Shariah or which do not allow religious freedom to sponsor the building of mosques and 'Islamic centres' in the West.
5. Stop kowtowing to Islamic organisations (which are often far from 'moderate') in the West and demand that Muslims who are in the West abide by the laws and customs of their host country.
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| But they are still living in the country next door. I don't see how that has solved the problem in any real way. |
If they are no longer in your country, they can no longer agitate for Shariah, riot, or demand that you change the laws of your nation to suit their own. If they are not in the country, it has solved the myriad of problems that were caused by them being in the country. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:23 am Post subject: |
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Ya-ta Boy,
The other thing I've noticed is how many of them are socks.  It's like, they can't make a defensible argument on their own, or stand behind their words...they have to create a lot of socks in order to 'create' the 'impression' that their one-dimensional viewpoint is a commonly-held one. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
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| That's very true. In fact, other than pointing to yet another example of extremist rhetoric from yet another radical, they don't have much of anything to say themselves. |
I have stated, on quite a few occasions what Western countries should do in response to both Islamic terrorism and the problems caused by Muslim immigration.
1. Start developing new sources of energy, reducing our reliance on Middle East Oil. Without oil, such countries would be irrelevant.
2. End all foreign aid to any countries that support Jihadi activities or which practice any form of Shariah. Build alliances with countries that are free and open, and which are threatened by Jihadist activities (eg Southern Sudan, India, Thailand)
3. Massively reduce Muslim immigration to the West, and deport those with no right to be there.
4. Make it illegal for countries which practice Shariah or which do not allow religious freedom to sponsor the building of mosques and 'Islamic centres' in the West.
5. Stop kowtowing to Islamic organisations (which are often far from 'moderate') in the West and demand that Muslims who are in the West abide by the laws and customs of their host country.
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| But they are still living in the country next door. I don't see how that has solved the problem in any real way. |
If they are no longer in your country, they can no longer agitate for Shariah, riot, or demand that you change the laws of your nation to suit their own. If they are not in the country, it has solved the myriad of problems that were caused by them being in the country. |
Actually, when I started this thread, I was referring to the broader scope of this tendency to define people. In my mind, I was reacting to people drawing divisions between people along religious/cultural lines as if that were the only thing that mattered. But as the local star infringer, I guess I'll have to deal with that.
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| in response to both Islamic terrorism |
I don't see any of your points addressing terrorism, directly or indirectly.
1. I agree with your first sentence. All of us in the world are decades overdue in developing alternative energy sources. It is just common sense to be searching for an alternative to a finite resource. If (when?) one is found, it would go a long way in liberating all of us from dependence on politically unstable countries half way around the world. It would do the environment a lot of good, too.
I disagree with the 'irrelevant' comment. I can't see how you can say a billion + people would be irrelevant. I think it says a lot about your attitude toward humanity though.
2. The major jihadists are non-state actors. Stopping aid to countries who also sponsor it is fine with me, but the key players wouldn't be much affected. Iran is the major exception and I don't know who is sending them foreign aid, but it sure as hell isn't my country.
3. The West imports cheap labor. If you don't want Moslems imported to do your laundry then you can import South Americans or Africans. My bet is you would have pretty much the same complaints about them. In all cases, you are avoiding the core problem. You don't like the current solution but offer none of your own.
4. I'm for religious freedom. If the Saudis want to spend their money trying to recruit Wahabbis, that's their business. Very few people in my neighborhood are interested in it. I am for spending a lot more foreign aid dollars in building schools in Pakistan though.
5. An emotional tirade. kowtowing? Tiresome and not worth discussing.
[quote]caused by them being in the country
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Ummm...as I was trying to point out, just moving a few million people from here to there does not eliminate the problem. They are still in the world. And we are all neighbors. |
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