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The Man known as The Man
Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Location: 3 cheers for Ted Haggard oh yeah!
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 Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Thanks sells Amway. |
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TheFonz
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: North Georgia
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| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| The Man known as The Man wrote: |
| Joe Thanks sells Amway. |
I thought he overdosed on steroids.  |
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deadman
Joined: 27 May 2006
Location: Suwon
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| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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Living a good and inspiring life is definately to be commended, especially if it leads to other people doing the same.
Evenagelical Christians, however, are a mixed blessing.
It is evident that some elements of the Christian Church are corrupt, both historically and today.
Historically, the Inquisition, and today, you sometimes hear of priests being charged with crimes related to their participation in Satanic rituals and practices.
Since there exist elements of both good and evil inside the church, it is essential that a responsible and genuine practitioner of the Christian faith has mechanisms for discerning between the two. This becomes doubly important if the person is actively, or aggressively, spreading their beliefs. Unfortunately, the Christians most likely to be evangelical, are also likely to be zealous to the point where they have no mechanism to question what they are told, and therefor there is a DANGER that they could become agents spreading confusion, or evil at worst. They might be spreading love, or spreading poison.
That is why Evangelical Christians must be apraoched with caution, and strongly opposed if they are ignorantly spreading false or corrupt teachings.
This is before you even consider politics. There are earthly agencies who promote spiritually questionable or corrupt ideologies to further their own political goals, eg Bush claiming the God tells him to invade this country or that country.
Fiveeagles, in reading your posts and occasionally posting back and forth, it is my opinion that you have no capability for evaluating the religious input you recieve, and are therefore and unguided spiritual missile, more likely to harm innocent bystanders than take out the evil you are aiming at.
As an example of what I mean, let me use quote a point you made on another issue.
| fiveeagles wrote: |
| Have you ever heard of Bonhoeffer, Happeningthing? He was one of the few Christian ministers who spoke out against the evil of Hitler. ... |
So Bonhoeffer existed in a time when a faith different to his own was being systematically dehumanised, and demonised, as a preparation for making war, of sorts, on them. He was courageous enough to resist those efforts and defend the humanity of all, not participate in the vilification of those who he might easily see as his enemies.
We live in similar times today. The middle east is a complex situation, but it is being overly simplified by the dehumanising, and demonising of another faith, in this case Islam, so that war can be made on them with little dissent from the general public.
Fiveagles, are you taking a courageous stand to defend the humanity of ALL of Gods children, or are you joining in the persecution? Are you emulating Bonhoeffer, or are you taking the opposite position to him and assisting the simplifying, generalising, dehumanising process in order to strike a deadly blow at your "enemies"?
| fiveeagles, on another thread wrote: |
| They want to kill us because we are infidels. |
EDIT - above comment out of context - talking about terrorists, not muslims as a whole.
On a separate note, while I'm at it..
| fiveeagles wrote: |
| deadman wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
| cerulean808 wrote: |
| Maybe they want to kill you because you won't listen to them. |
They want to kill us because we are infidels. It's quite simple. You don't believe in Allah, then you are the enemy. |
No, you are simple, not to mention racist. I don't suppose it occurred to you that most Muslim individuals want nothing more than to live their lives free from molestation, like any other group of people on this earth. |
Nice. You said maybe they want to kill you because you won't listen to them? Wouldn't that be racist? Look at how easily you snapped. Slapping me with the racist tag. . |
I think you accidentally missed the fact that you were talking to two people, cerulean808 and myself, but no harm done.
I was too quick to slap you with the racist tag, it would have been fairer to say you made a racist generalisation.[/quote]
Last edited by deadman on Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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The Man known as The Man
Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Location: 3 cheers for Ted Haggard oh yeah!
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| TheFonz wrote: |
| The Man known as The Man wrote: |
| Joe Thanks sells Amway. |
I thought he overdosed on steroids. |
Sorry, wrong tense-Joe Thanks sold Amway-he's dead. |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
Why do I talk about my Christian perspective on this board? It is because i believe there is a dangerous precedent that is being put forth. There is an element of those who hate Bush and try to undermine the war on terror. And there are those who want to push God out of the classroom. There are topics, but I believe these are the main topics that I have talked about. |
In all honesty Eagles, your take on these issues is the primary reason I've been hostile towards your postings. How does a Christian view of things conclude that Bush and the bullsh*t war on terror is a good thing??
To me god(s), christianity, spirituality is about love, compassion, tolerance, you know... good stuff. To me that's polar opposite to Bush and his initiatives. When you put those two together it's just screaming WRONG!!!!! in my brain. That's my gut reaction, I'm not trying to have a go at you, but to quote an Australian equivalent to GDubya....please explain.
| fiveeagles wrote: |
I believe I should voice an opinion on these topics. Some may view it as evangelism, but I view it as social justice. Why do I seem to be the only one speaking out on such issues, maybe because many Christians are bound by fear and thus not speaking out on such issues. |
OK fair enough if, to your mind, these are issues of social justice, but you have to admit that your concepts of social justice are inextricably linked to your religion. Maybe, you view your religion as the right way to live and therefore social justice would be served if everyone lived that way? Is that a fair assessment?
| fiveeagles wrote: |
Many Christians are in sin and don't feel like they have the authority to speak on such issues. While others feel like the Fonz and you. A quiet faith is stronger than a loud one.
In some cases, I have the upmost respect for Christians like this and know that they have a big impact on people's lives. I was impacted by a boss of mine who brought gentleness and kindness into the workplace. He didn't speak of his faith, but lived it. However, there were others who spoke truth into my life that pierced my heart to know that I was a sinner. Without both, I would still be the person I once was. Not everyone is called to be an evangelist. Most Christians are going to win people to Christ, by friendship. It's one of the most powerful tools of Christianity and I am glad it has touched your life. |
Again, my friends weren't trying to, and haven't 'won me to Christ'. That kind of thing makes me think you're still holding conversion in mind as an overreaching goal.
| fiveeagles wrote: |
Have you ever heard of Bonhoeffer, Happeningthing? He was one of the few Christian ministers who spoke out against the evil of Hitler. He was eventually killed for his faith, but he made a stand against a wicked man and a evil government. He didn't do it because he thought it was cool to be persecuted. He did it because he thought it was right. Likewise with many leaders who faced danger and persecution. They didn't do it because they loved the danger, they did it because they knew they had to take a stand.
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See Deadman. I have to agree with everything s/he said about this.
| fiveeagles wrote: |
Maybe some person love to be perscuted or hated, in which I can't understand...RT does seem to like it. When you called me an idiot and I think it was the first thing you said to me. It didn't make me do a little dance and think...yeah, this is great. It hurts man. Likewise do all the other words that are harsh or twisted that are intended to hurt. However, I am not going to back down because of intimidation or anger. Generally, I use jokes or paradoxes to reflect their anger. If this is seen as defensiveness or arrogance then I apologize. I am not perfect and I have a long ways to go.
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Dammit! You had to go and be a nice guy about it didn't you.  Fair enough Eagles, I owe you an apology there. Again gut reaction. In my defense you were talking about the existence of heaven. Again ...to my mind WRONG!!!... People aren't going to be encouraged to make changes in this world by waiting to die and go to fluffy cloud land. There's a hard reality in this world that things are going wrong in a big way. This is the chance to do something about it. Now, not later. But.... calling you an idiot was a bad choice and disrespectful. I'm sorry about that.
| fiveeagles wrote: |
That being said, I will leave if Dave tells me to. So if you want me to go, then tell Dave to pull the plug on my existence here. Or if he wants me to tone it down, then by all means, I will respect that. |
Doubt that it's warranted or likely. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| What is up with the Christians?? |
What kind of a pathetic thread title is that? More persecution?
Don't worry I'm sure you'll never risk being in the minority. |
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Apple Scruff
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| Quote: |
| What is up with the Christians?? |
What kind of a pathetic thread title is that? More persecution?
Don't worry I'm sure you'll never risk being in the minority. |
It's a perfectly valid question. What IS up with Christians, Junior? |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| Quote: |
| What is up with the Christians?? |
What kind of a pathetic thread title is that? More persecution?
Don't worry I'm sure you'll never risk being in the minority. |
Try reading beyond the title. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| happeningthang wrote: |
Again, my friends weren't trying to, and haven't 'won me to Christ'. That kind of thing makes me think you're still holding conversion in mind as an overreaching goal.
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Yeah, but they influenced you right? When you think of good Christians, you think about them right?
| Quote: |
| Dammit! You had to go and be a nice guy about it didn't you. Fair enough Eagles, I owe you an apology there. Again gut reaction. In my defense you were talking about the existence of heaven. Again ...to my mind WRONG!!!... People aren't going to be encouraged to make changes in this world by waiting to die and go to fluffy cloud land. There's a hard reality in this world that things are going wrong in a big way. This is the chance to do something about it. Now, not later. But.... calling you an idiot was a bad choice and disrespectful. I'm sorry about that. |
Thanks. That's big of you.
When I talk about Heaven, it's not a fluffy position in a future place. It's about the now and bringing it to earth. Helping in environmental issues, feeding the poor, loving the unlovable, and trying to piss some people off. |
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