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| Will George Bush have a good legacy? |
| Yeah, he will be on the same level as Lincoln |
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5% |
[ 2 ] |
| Yeah, the same as Reagan |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| Yeah, but less than Reagan |
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7% |
[ 3 ] |
| No, on the same level as Carter |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| No, on the same level as Nixon |
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57% |
[ 22 ] |
| No, on the same level as Hitler |
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21% |
[ 8 ] |
| Worse than Hitler |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 38 |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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 Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:10 pm Post subject: The legacy of George Bush |
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Happeningthang, I thought I would make this another thread.
| happeningthang wrote: |
In all honesty Eagles, your take on these issues is the primary reason I've been hostile towards your postings. How does a Christian view of things conclude that Bush and the bullsh*t war on terror is a good thing??
To me god(s), christianity, spirituality is about love, compassion, tolerance, you know... good stuff. To me that's polar opposite to Bush and his initiatives. When you put those two together it's just screaming WRONG!!!!! in my brain. That's my gut reaction, I'm not trying to have a go at you, but to quote an Australian equivalent to GDubya....please explain.
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Good old Bush, eh?
Before the war in Iraq, I sent out a mass email to many of my friends and church members stating that I was against the war and that it was in the wrong spirit. Nobody replied and beyond that I was scorned somewhat by members who had influenced. However, I can understand this, because it is a very complicated process. As time reveals, it does seem like it was a wrong war at the wrong time.
Still, I can find positives in what George has done.
1. Removed Saddam Hussein, who is responsible for killing hundreds of thousand of his own people.
2. Instilled courage in people to fight against terrorism and stand for democracy. How many turned out for the elections? 80 percent in the face of death.
3. Has put fear in the Terrorist community. Where's Bin O Laden? Hiding in a cave and shaking like a baby.
4. Reduced the amount of persecution against Christians in the Islamic community. This might be hard to believe, but from what I have read and heard through friends and sources...it is much better now then when Bill Clinton was on board. I don�t know if you care about this, but I definitely do. Many Christians throughout the world are poor and exploited by evil regimes.
Remember, I am still against the war in Iraq because war is war. It is a horrible deal and with it are horrible consequences. However, the important part is this. I haven't demonized George into something that he isn't. Whereas the NY Post, the LA times, Michael Moore have and other organizations have. They hate his stand against abortion, stem cell research and gay marriages and so they have killed this guy in the press. In the NY Times, there have been 118 articles written on him and of those articles, none have been positive. (Source...Bill O Reilly)
Am I for big greedy business models, the destruction of the environment and poverty? Of course not. Do I blame it all on Bush for what we are seeing in this world? No...I blame it on sin. Maybe foolish in your eyes, but I have had a lot of experience in this arena. I worked in Detroit for an environmental engineering company for 2 years and before that I worked in BC for 5 years. My dad has a company of the stock market for environmental solutions and my family owns businesses in other areas such as weapons manufacturing. People are greedy Happeningthing and they will always exploit the system. Regardless of what it is called. Communism, Church, Islam, Democracy and so forth. We live in a fallen world where people hate good and oppress the truth. Unlike human secularism where it believes people are inheritently good, I believe they are inheritently evil.
Can Bush be blamed for terrorists who strap bombs on their backs and randomly kill school children? Can he be blamed for most of the church seeing its own influence and prosperity above the imporance of helping others? No, he can't. He can try to influence them by his own moral behavior, in which I believe he has done a good job, but is having a difficult time because he is being character assassinated by a dark force.
Was George to blame for Katrina or was it series of mistakes throughout government and with the people? The governor had hundreds of school buses that he could have used, many people ignored the warnings, improper policies were in place, and Bush made mistakes.
So, we can either believe that he is motivated out of good intentions and wants what is right for the world or we can believe he is motivated out of evil.
How can you discern which one it is? Most of what Michael Moore has tried to pin on Bush has been shown to be outright lies. Every time there is a sniff of conspiracy or mistakes, the press jumps on him like rabbib hounds. Whereas most of the blame usually falls upon human institions. Can we really put our trust in human institions and world leaders? No and its the failure to recognize our trust in God that is bringing about the destruction that we see in this world.
So really, why is he hated? It is it because of his stand for righteousness. Like I have said, he stands against abortion, stands against homosexual marriage and stem cell research. This is why he is. Yeah, he has made mistakes, but for the most part, God�s grace is able to overcome these issues for it is perfected in weakness.
Look at Lincoln and the history around his life. Liberals hated him and called him an idiot, a buffoon or liar. Churchill was called a warmonger by backbenchers. Reagan was also hated by many and only has become popular as time has shown the intelligence of the man.
Were they without their mistakes? No, they have all committed mistakes and were able to overcome these negative opinions later in life. Bush will find favor with God and we will see him cast in a favorable light in the future. It happens to all who stand for righteousness. God takes the foolishness and exalts it before the world so that it confuses the wisdom of the world.
Last edited by fiveeagles on Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Can I borrow your rose-coloured spectacles?
From the 2 votes, it must be you who rates him the equal of Lincoln.  |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
Can I borrow your rose-coloured spectacles?
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Sure, I think i bought them in Montreeeal. 
| Quote: |
| From the 2 votes, it must be you who rates him the equal of Lincoln. |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Never been to Montreal: stayed one night in Toronto and hope to visit Vancouver this summer. Either there or Nashville. Which do you recommend? |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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I voted Nixon just because he will go down as pretty much one of the most disliked [residents ever. But not in the Nixonian way. I think Nixon was actually an intelligent man who did accomplish quite a lot. He crashed to the ground at the end in after Watergate and I think that Bush has been as dirty and as criminal as Nixon was. However he isnt Nixon in that Nixon was intelligent. Bush will go down as the most ineffectual, the dumbest president in a very long time. 2 faild terms that will make up one of the most failed presidencies ever. Not just for the scandals like Nixon but for the whole picture. People have finally realized that he is a guy who has no grasp of the intriacies of whats happening in the world. He simply doesnt have the intellectual capacity to deal with the problems in the world, and thats dangerous. Under his watch, NK and Iran have crossed red line after red line. The Norks have a growing nuclear arsenal, so does Iran most likely. The Middle East has been screwed up beyond all recognition. It took a guy like Bush to actually do the impossible and make the ME pre 2000 look peaceful and promising. The environment has been trashed, the deficit and debt are at record highs. The US has no military flexibility due to being bogged down in Vietnam II Baghdad Erupts. Every single issue that Bush has faced, both on the domestic and the intentaional stage has been a failure. And why? because this is a guy with the intellectual capacity of a 4th grader. "China is big and you are a big country too". "Yo, Blair! Gotta go home. Got big things to do. You going home too?. "Geeee, I wonder of Merkel wants a shoulder rub...ooops she looked kinda creeped out maybe Ill just run along with an idiotic look on my face and pretend nothing happeend...yah, thats a good idea!"
Bush's inability to talk isnt just some funny quirk like many thought, it shows a real inability of this guy to process things intellectually. he really IS as dumb as he sounds "You can fool me once, shame on ... on ... on me. Fool me twice .. You cant get fooled again". Well, it looks like the American people did get fooled. Again. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
| Never been to Montreal: stayed one night in Toronto and hope to visit Vancouver this summer. Either there or Nashville. Which do you recommend? |
I was just joking about your avator...I thought you were a Frenchie.
Ummm, seriously?
Depends on what you want to do. Nashville is great if you like country music. The country there is pretty nice too! Nice mellow hiking. Vancouver is great if you don't like country music. I think Vancouver is an amazing city. It has everything. Culture, outdoors, foods of all types, beautiful parks, and lots of Koreans! ha. |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| Wangja wrote: |
| Never been to Montreal: stayed one night in Toronto and hope to visit Vancouver this summer. Either there or Nashville. Which do you recommend? |
I was just joking about your avator...I thought you were a Frenchie.
Ummm, seriously?
Depends on what you want to do. Nashville is great if you like country music. The country there is pretty nice too! Nice mellow hiking. Vancouver is great if you don't like country music. I think Vancouver is an amazing city. It has everything. Culture, outdoors, foods of all types, beautiful parks, and lots of Koreans! ha. |
Nah, not a Frenchie, although I've worked with French companies for many years.
The question was half serious: I will be in San Diego and touring - question is north or east. I do have a hankering to go to Vancouver, and your take helps. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Definitely Vancouver. |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: The legacy of George Bush |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
1. Removed Saddam Hussein, who is responsible for killing hundreds of thousand of his own people.
2. Instilled courage in people to fight against terrorism and stand for democracy. How many turned out for the elections? 80 percent in the face of death.
3. Has put fear in the Terrorist community. Where's Bin O Laden? Hiding in a cave and shaking like a baby.
4. Reduced the amount of persecution against Christians in the Islamic community. This might be hard to believe, but from what I have read and heard through friends and sources...it is much better now then when Bill Clinton was on board. I don�t know if you care about this, but I definitely do. Many Christians throughout the world are poor and exploited by evil regimes.
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1. Saddam has been successfully removed, but at what expense? How many people (Iraqi's, Americans, Brits etc) have died, and continue to die, to accomplish this objective?
2. Many Iraqi's have been instilled with courage to fight against an illegal occupation by US forces.
3. I personally think bin Laden is more likely to be laughing his socks off rather than shaking like a baby. They can't find him.... And the terrorist community now has a real cause, thanks to Mr Bush.
4. Persecution against Christians may have gone down, but against Muslim people it has skyrocketed.
I don't think he will have a very good legacy. |
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deadman
Joined: 27 May 2006
Location: Suwon
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:52 am Post subject: |
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I voted as as bad as Hitler because I think the Depleted Uranium issue will be the one that persists the longest and worsens with time, whereas other aspects of his presidency will tend to be forgotten over time.
It think the DU will in time reveal itself to have severely compromised the genetic integrity of an entire people. Thats a pretty horrendous genocidal crime that will continue to be felt for generations. While not the explicit intent, the refusal to fully investigate and the media coverup is a crime of omission on the same scale. It's something that will sit very uncomfartably on the conscience of any reasonably informed American.
I don't think even that will be the killer of GWBs memory. It's when the returned servicemen start to give birth to an alarming number of deformed babies and dying of cancer or various other ailments that the true extent of the betrayal of the American people will be realised. The very people putting their lives on the line, and risking death to realise Bush's vision will be the ones who pay the price in ruined health and emotionally devastating birth defects. Meanwhile Bush's cronies have reaped massive profits from the whole affair.
I think THATs what he will be remembered for. There will be precious few to defend him too. Once he's out of office, it'll be much easier to scapegoat him for all the worst legacies of the administration than to confront the corruption inherent in the system which supports him now. That bemused bumbling fool will become a pariah reviled by left and right, muslims and christians alike, while the real evil will still be embedded in the system.
THATS why I think he will be remembered as as bad as Hitler. I don't think he is as evil as Hitler, in fact, I don't think he is evil at all, but the sheer vacuousness of his personality makes him vessel for it. Of course, Jewish people will very understandably continue to hate Hitler more, because they bore the brunt of his evil, whereas they aren't doing too badly under GWB, but overall: as bad as Hitler. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| Hitler killed/ was responsible for the deaths of 37,000,000 people |
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WorldWide
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:18 am Post subject: |
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WORST PRESIDENT EVER !!!!
His legacy will be "Oh... bush.... thank god he's out of office".
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TheFonz
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: North Georgia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Hitler killed/ was responsible for the deaths of 37,000,000 people |
I find it disturbing that five people put Bush on the same level as Hitler. 
Bush is on the same level as Carter. Jimmy was a bad president president, but his intentions were good. W isn't the "Hitler, Nixon" everyone is making him out to be. As far as personality he would be more like Johnson & Carter combined. I am not pro-Bush by any means, but Al Gore/John Kerry wouldn't have been any better. |
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WorldWide
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| TheFonz wrote: |
Bush is on the same level as Carter. Jimmy was a bad president president, but his intentions were good. |
bush has been selling your country out to the energy sector from day one! He is horribly corrupt and has done nothing for your country. He is a puppet president who wants to abuse authority as much as possible to enrich his masters.
Please list his accomplishments that had good intentions. |
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Captain Courageous
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Location: Bundang and loving it
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:42 am Post subject: |
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Man, there seems to be only two sides to this debate - one side that gives a good Christian man a verbal beej, and the other side that sees him standing at the right hand of the Devil's throne.
Both sides are pretty much wrong, unfortunately. I'll write about why after I take a leak and a shower. |
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