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happeningthang

Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:28 am Post subject: |
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bigverne wrote: |
The time, energy and millions of $ spent on 'liberating' Iraq would have been much better spent on people who would actually appreciate it, like the non-Muslims (mostly Christians and Animists) of the Southern Sudan, and the black Muslims of Darfur. The West could have helped build stable, pro-Western democratic states in places where a Western influence would have been appreciated. American troops would have been treated truly as liberators in these areas rather than occupying 'infidels'. Instead, we are helping Muslims to build anti-Western Shariah societies in Iraq and Afghanistan, all the while getting killed for doing so. |
OIL! |
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happeningthang

Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:33 am Post subject: |
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dulouz wrote: |
People are dying in sudan due to the success of Left wing pressure. Occupying another land, shooting Muslims, shooting brown people, Abu Graib, Gitmo, everything that bush does is wrong etc.
Oh yea...
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There was also oil discovered in Southern Sudan a few years ago so that is another reason for America to get the peace process moving.
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Yea, m1m. |
Could you please elaborate? Because that sounds kind of out there. |
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safeblad
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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fiveeagles

Joined: 19 May 2005 Location: Vancouver
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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I skimmed over it, but I don't think it mentioned China.
How about this one;
http://www.earlywarning.com/articles/2004_10_15_china_sudan_connect
If there is an evil empire on this planet, it's China.
But where is the press on this on? Where are the cries for human rights? Where's Annan? He's condemning the Israelites! Huhhh? |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: |
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bigverne wrote: |
The time, energy and millions of $ spent on 'liberating' Iraq would have been much better spent on people who would actually appreciate it, like the non-Muslims (mostly Christians and Animists) of the Southern Sudan, and the black Muslims of Darfur. The West could have helped build stable, pro-Western democratic states in places where a Western influence would have been appreciated. American troops would have been treated truly as liberators in these areas rather than occupying 'infidels'. Instead, we are helping Muslims to build anti-Western Shariah societies in Iraq and Afghanistan, all the while getting killed for doing so. |
Have to agree with you on this one. That being said, I think it was necessary for the USA to go into afghanistan post-9/11 simply because the American public needed to have some type of "retribution" for the atrocity and just bombing Afghanistan would not have been sufficient.
Iraq on the other hand.. That was 100% tragic and avoidable. |
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Nowhere Man

Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:32 am Post subject: ... |
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What was your take on Iraq in Spring 2003? |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Why not ask the Sudanese themselves for an explanation...?
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The Sudanese government is refusing to allow U.N. peacekeepers to replace African Union troops in that war-torn country. John Prendergast, senior advisor to the International Crisis Group, talks with Alex Chadwick about resistance to intervention in the Darfur region. |
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5567875
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Kenneth Bacon, president of Refugees International, talks with Scott Simon about his visit to Darfur this week. Bacon says the peace accord signed in May has failed to stop violence in the region. But aid efforts in the region have largely managed to continue serving the large displaced population. |
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5575296 |
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AbbeFaria
Joined: 17 May 2005 Location: Gangnam
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Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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See, this is the kind of thing that pisses me off. Some poor country is in trouble and everyone starst moaning about the U.S. not helping. When we do go in to a country to set up shop and clean a little house, however, we're imperialistic hairless monkeys with a taste for the blood of brown people. There is no winning.
There are also no free rides. No country is going to spend the millions or billions it costs to field the army it would take to take control of Sudan and calm them the frell down. The U.S. is no different. it takes obscene amounts of money that most of us can't even comprehend, to get a large military force moving on a day to day basis, keeping it supplied and the like. If your country wants help then I'm sorry, but we need something for our trouble. If it's oil, then so be it, whatever your natural resource is, we, and the rest of the world's possible peace-keeping forces, need a little return on our investment.
You all certianly don't work for free and most of you are teachers here who do very little actual work. Not saying any of you are lazy or harping on you, but seriously, these are cushy jobs. We don't work for free, why should an army hundreds of thousands strong be expected to work for anything less. They're asked to give their life in service of their country, doing whatever their government asks of them. We're asked to teach to a bunch of 8 yr. olds to distinguish between R and L, but who can't stop trying to jam their fingers up your rectum. Yet the government and military are supposed to act with total nobility and self-sacrifice. Get frelling real.
And there are hundreds of countries in the world, how can we possible be expected to care about all of them. Our brains evolved to put a cap on the actual amount of sympathy and empathy that we can feel. Those of you with an over-developed sense of grief and awareness of every poor person who might be suffering obviosly don't have enough to do.
Sudan doesn't want help, frell them. I certianly won't shed a tear over the countless thousands who will now die because they were too stubborn and short-sited to accept an offer that could have brought peace to the region. At that point the U.S. and the U.N. are absolved of all responsibility. You can only help someone who wants it.
�S� |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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Nowhere Man wrote: |
What was your take on Iraq in Spring 2003? |
That it was a dumb ass maneuver. I've always thought that. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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AbbeFaria wrote: |
Sudan doesn't want help, frell them. I certianly won't shed a tear over the countless thousands who will now die because they were too stubborn and short-sited to accept an offer that could have brought peace to the region. At that point the U.S. and the U.N. are absolved of all responsibility. You can only help someone who wants it.
�S� |
Huh? Well obviously the Sudanese government doesn't want the US and UN involved. It's the one sponsoring the atrocities.
I thnk the people of Darfur (and south sudan before) would be quite happy with western assistance. |
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fiveeagles

Joined: 19 May 2005 Location: Vancouver
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Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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bucheon bum wrote: |
AbbeFaria wrote: |
Sudan doesn't want help, frell them. I certianly won't shed a tear over the countless thousands who will now die because they were too stubborn and short-sited to accept an offer that could have brought peace to the region. At that point the U.S. and the U.N. are absolved of all responsibility. You can only help someone who wants it.
�S� |
Huh? Well obviously the Sudanese government doesn't want the US and UN involved. It's the one sponsoring the atrocities.
I thnk the people of Darfur (and south sudan before) would be quite happy with western assistance. |
I agree, it's a horrible tragedy. Maybe Annan isn't speaking out against it like he is with Israel, because it's a muslim government? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:34 am Post subject: |
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Of course the so called " anti war" movement is silent . They pretend to protest out of moral concern when it is really about politics and in some cases unfortunately prejudice. There is no such thing as political morality |
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SirFink

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:16 am Post subject: Re: Where's the outrage with Sudan? |
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fiveeagles wrote: |
Am I missing something here? |
Yes. There's been plenty of condemnation from around the world. The world condemned, demanded somebody do something about it, and then went to bed, woke up to a new day and a new world crisis.
What do you expect? Daily condemnation on CNN? Will that be enough condemnation to satisfy your need for condemnation? Then what? What, specifically, are you doing to stop the situation in Sudan? Besides complaining about the lack of condemnation? |
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bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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There's been plenty of condemnation from around the world |
What are you talking about? The much lauded UN, couldn't even agree that a genocide was taking place, even as thousands of people in Darfur were being ethnically cleansed. Compare that to the pathological obsession with tiny Israel. The difference in the approach of the UN to these two countries is because of the influence of Arab and Muslim countries which constantly push for condemnations of Israel, while actually blocking any moves to help the Black (and therefore inferior) Muslims of Darfur. Let nobody take the UN seriously ever again. |
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safeblad
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:58 am Post subject: |
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[quote="bigverne"]
The difference in the approach of the UN to these two countries is because of the influence of Arab and Muslim countries which constantly push for condemnations of Israel, while actually blocking any moves to help the Black (and therefore inferior) Muslims of Darfur. /quote]
what are YOU talking about. power and influence of arab and muslim countries deary me...... its not like there are usually loads on the security council. |
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