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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| R.S. Refugee wrote: |
| ...an acceptable ("just" is a difficult word to use in this situation) solution that most likely includes a peace settlement with a return to their pre-1967 borders in exchange for peace and recognition of Israel, the resistance is likely to continue... |
I am glad that you brought up 1967. It allows us to begin to consider the ultimate causes for the Arab-Israeli Conflict and the turbulence we have all experienced in one way or another, for decades.
Here, for those who are not familiar with it, is a short survey on the Six-Day War and its causes and origins, courtesy of Encarta...
| Microsoft Encarta wrote: |
I. INTRODUCTION
Six-Day War, armed conflict in June 1967 between Israel and the Arab states of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. In six days, Israel conquered the Sinai Peninsula, Gaza Strip, West Bank, and Golan Heights, which became collectively known as the Occupied Territories.
Israel and its Arab neighbors had been hostile toward each other since 1948, when Israel became a nation in an area that Palestinian Arabs claim as their homeland. After Israel declared its statehood, several Arab states and Palestinian groups immediately attacked Israel, only to be driven back. In 1956 Israel overran Egypt in the Suez-Sinai War. Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser vowed to avenge Arab losses and press the cause of Palestinian nationalism. To this end, he organized an alliance of Arab states surrounding Israel and mobilized for war. Israel preempted the invasion with its own attack on June 5, 1967. In the following days, Israel drove Arab armies from the Sinai Peninsula, Gaza Strip, West Bank, and Golan Heights, all of which it then occupied. Israel also reunited Jerusalem, the eastern half of which Jordan had controlled since the 1948-1949 war. The Six-Day War was viewed as an enormous victory for Israel, but the territories it gained did not stop future fighting. The peace process throughout the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s has in large part been an attempt to resolve the land disputes created by Israel�s military success.
II. CAUSES OF THE WAR
In the years before the Six-Day War, the Arab countries continually refused to acknowledge the legitimacy of the Jewish state, and Arab nationalists led by Nasser called for the destruction of Israel. Egypt and Jordan supported Palestinian fedayeen (guerrillas), who attacked troops and civilians in Israeli territory, then retreated to the Egyptian-controlled Gaza Strip or the Jordanian-controlled West Bank. From its Golan Heights region, Syria regularly shelled Israeli farms. For its part, Israel refused to accept Jordan�s control of Jewish holy places in East Jerusalem. Israel also kept tensions high by responding to Arab incursions with reprisals on Arab territory.
In April 1967, after Syria heavily shelled Israeli villages from the Golan Heights, Israel and Syria engaged in aerial clashes. Israel shot down six of Syria�s MiG fighter planes, which were given by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR). Israel warned Syria against future attacks, and both the Syrians and Soviets were alarmed by the warning. Syria appealed to Nasser for backing, and in mid-May the Egyptian army moved 100,000 troops and 1000 tanks into the Sinai Peninsula on Israel�s southern border. The United Nations (UN) had earlier stationed forces in the area as observers, but on May 17, Nasser called for the removal of UN personnel from several locations. Within days, all of the observers were removed. On May 22 Nasser announced the closure of the Strait of Tiran, a vital shipping corridor for Israel with links to the Red Sea and major sources of petroleum. A similar closure of the strait had been a major cause of the Suez Crisis in 1956; Israel had made clear since then that it would regard another closure as an act of war. Israel was further alarmed when Egypt and Jordan signed a treaty placing the two armies under a joint command. Despite a flurry of diplomatic effort, war seemed inevitable... |
What makes you so sure, R.S., that your Arab friends will ever willingly recognize Israel or leave it in peace...? When have they ever recognized Israel or showed any degree of willingness to coexist?
What else, then, have you got to propose rather than this simplistic and unworkable peace formula. I mean, what...are you and Ddeubel going to vouch for the rest of the Arab Middle East on the "peace and recognition of Israel" part?
| R.S. Refugee wrote: |
| ...a peace settlement with a return to their pre-1967 borders in exchange for peace and recognition of Israel... |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| cerulean808 wrote: |
Joo Rip
| Quote: |
| well Iran has engaged in a war against the US. |
Really? When was this war declared? Has the US declared itself at war with Iran? |
What is this?
Shipment of high explosives intercepted in Iraq
Most sophisticated of roadside bombs reportedly coming from Iran
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8829929/
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9/11 Commission Finds Ties Between al-Qaeda and Iran
Senior U.S. officials have told TIME that the 9/11 Commission's report will cite evidence suggesting that the 9/11 hijackers had previously passed through Iran
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,664967,00.html
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On June 25, 1996, Iran again attacked America at Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, exploding a huge truck bomb that devastated Khobar Towers and murdered 19 U.S. airmen as they rested in their dormitory. These young heroes spent every day risking their lives enforcing the no-fly zone over southern Iraq; that is, protecting Iraqi Shiites from their own murderous tyrant. When I visited this horrific scene soon after the attack, I watched dozens of dedicated FBI agents combing through the wreckage in 120-degree heat, reverently handling the human remains of our brave young men. More than 400 of our Air Force men and women were wounded in this well-planned attack, and I was humbled by their courage and spirit. I later met with the families of our lost Khobar heroes and promised that we would do whatever was necessary to bring these terrorists to American justice. The courage and dignity these wonderful families have consistently exemplified has been one of the most powerful experiences of my 26 years of public service.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110003518
Iran responsible for 1983 Marine barracks bombing, judge rules
Friday, May 30, 2003 Posted: 11:14 PM EDT (0314 GMT)
Marines search through the rubble for their missing comrades after the 1983 barracks bombing in Beirut, Lebanon.
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Iran is responsible for the 1983 suicide bombing of a U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut, Lebanon, that killed 241 American servicemen, a U.S. District Court judge ruled Friday.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/05/30/iran.barracks.bombing/
Amir Taheri: Khomeinists hammering new strategy to oust 'Great Satan'
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But at almost exactly the same time, militants from some 40 countries spread across the globe were trekking to Tehran for a 10-day "revolutionary jamboree" in which "a new strategy to confront the American Great Satan" will be hammered out. The event is scheduled to start on February 1 to mark the 25th anniversary of the return to Iran from exile of the late Ayatollah Khomeini, the founder of the "Islamic Revolution".
It is not clear how many militants will attend, but the official media promise a massive turnout to underline the Islamic Republic's position as the "throbbing heart of world resistance to American arrogance."
The guest list reads like a who-is-who of global terror.
In fact, most of the organisations attending the event, labelled "Ten-Days of Dawn", are branded by the US and some European Union members as terrorist outfits. For more than two decades, Tehran has been a magnet for militant groups from many different national and ideological backgrounds.
The Islamic Republic's hospitality cuts across even religious divides. Militant Sunni organisations, including two linked to Al Qaida, Ansar al-Islam (Companions of Islam) and Hizb Islami (The Islamic Party), enjoy Iranian hospitality.
They are joined by Latin American guerrilla outfits, clandestine Irish organisations, Basque and Corsican separatists, and a variety of leftist groups from Spartacists to Trotskyites and Guevarists. Tehran is the only capital where all the Palestinian militant movements have offices and, in some cases, training and financial facilities.
http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/04/01/28/109235.html
Yes Iran was just protecting their soverignty when they did these things .
How about when the kill translators of the Satantic Versus?
I know media conspiracy.  |
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cerulean808
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip I asked you when this war was declared and if the US had declared war. Rhetorical questions of course. At least Gopher got to the point. But that date 1979 seems so arbitrary. Why settle for that year and not go further back for the cause of hostilities Gopher? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| cerulean808 wrote: |
| Joo Rip I asked you when this war was declared and if the US had declared war. Rhetorical questions of course. At least Gopher got to the point. But that date 1979 seems so arbitrary. Why settle for that year and not go further back for the cause of hostilities Gopher? |
The US didn't declare war but Iran has made war on the US - for a long time. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Arbitrary?
Before 1979 U.S.-Iranian relations were cordial.
After the Fundamentalists toppled the Shan, illegally seized our embassy, and held our diplomats and others hostage, things seemed to change between our two countries. Call me "crazy," but it is hard to think of this as an arbitrary demarcation. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, R.S.: I am waiting for your explanation why you think Israel believed it necessary to attack and occupy Gaza and the rest of the occupied territories in 1967 and then, subsequent to this, to detain people the way it has since then.
I understand that you and the other antiAmerican, antisemetic posters here take your history of the Arab-Israeli Conflict back to this point, and like your correligionists in Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria, Iran, and elsewhere in the antiIsraeli Arab Middle East, focus attn on this and only this -- e.g., Israeli "responsibility" and "accountability" -- without recognizing anything earlier as relevant (even anything latter, such as Hezbollah's recent deliberate provocation), in claiming that your cause is just and Israel's is not.
But what I do not understand is how you can continue to ignore the information I post on the causes and origins of the Arab-Israeli Conflict and how this shows, that no matter how far Israel has fallen, morally speaking, that, ultimately, Tel Aviv was not the instigator of this, was not, moreover, the aggressor, and, consequently, is not morally equal to its opponents in the intolerant antiIsraeli Arab Middle East.
You brought up "1967." How can you ignore its meaning and ramifications for the antiIsraeli Arab Middle East's responsibility and accountability?
If, following X's ethnic- and racially-derived hatreds, X deliberately and systematically harasses, attacks, and conspires to annihilate Y, X's neighbor, over the course of several decades, but then Y responds to this on X's own level, turning the tables, so that many of X's own people are deliberately and systematically harassed and attacked (but not subject to plans to annihilate them), are you telling me that all that you see here is Y's immorality?
Because it looks an awful lot to me like X loves to play with fire. And, like a slow child who never learns, keeps getting burned, and worse: keeps throwing the same temper tantrum every time he gets burned, demanding that the world treat him with compassion and a balanced point of view...after all, all he wants to do is annihilate his neighbor.
And you, R.S., do not even fault Israel's deadly enemies in the antiIsraeli Arab Middle East for this, do you? |
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cerulean808
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:07 am Post subject: |
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You've got it back to front Gopher, Israel is built on the dispossession and elimination of the indigenous population. Israel isn't defending itself, it is in and of itself an act of aggression like all colonisation projects. And like all colonisers the Israelis must use violence to achieve their goal.
Your hackneyed neo con polemic about 'moral equivalency' fails according to its own logic as a result.
Gopher
| Quote: |
| Before 1979 U.S.-Iranian relations were cordial. |
They sure were.
After all it was the US's 'Operation Ajax' that kicked the democratic moderate Mossadeq out in a violent coup and reinstalled the Shah and his Savak. Do you remember Savak, Gopher? Probably not, too inconvienient. Here's a reminder.
Examples of their modi opereandi:
Attaching electrical cables to the genitals of their victims including the uterus of female prisoners.
Nail extraction
Rape
'Cooking' - the victim strapped to a bed of wire that was electrified like a red hot toaster.
Prisoners sodomised with bottles and boiling eggs.
But wait, I must be guilty of 'moral equivalency'. Gopher and company can create and support this kind of regime cos they're the good guys so it doesn't count! |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| You've got it back to front Gopher, Israel is built on the dispossession and elimination of the indigenous population. Israel isn't defending itself, it is in and of itself an act of aggression like all colonisation projects. And like all colonisers the Israelis must use violence to achieve their goal. |
Yeah and mideast states persecuted their Arab Jews. They rejected the 1948 compromise. Israels enemies are built on the persecution of their minorities.
Anyway if Israel belongs to the Arab world then why doesn't the Arab world belong to Turkey? Wasn't just about the entire mideast part of the Ottoman Empire before 1920? Transjordan was right?
How is Israel not defending itself? Hizzbollah keeps attacking and they won't give up their war
| Quote: |
| Your hackneyed neo con polemic about 'moral equivalency' fails according to its own logic as a result. |
Gopher didn't even vote for Bush. Anyone who doesn't agree with you and Pilger is a Neo Con.
| Quote: |
They sure were.
After all it was the US's 'Operation Ajax' that kicked the democratic moderate Mossadeq out in a violent coup and reinstalled the Shah and his Savak. Do you remember Savak, Gopher? Probably not, too inconvienient. Here's a reminder. |
Gopher knows the history better than you do.
So what you are saying is cause the US helped the Shah get back in power that it excuse terror and attacks on the US 30 , and 40 years later.
what an apologist for anyone around the world who hates the US. You are a moonbat.
Examples of their modi opereandi:
| Quote: |
Attaching electrical cables to the genitals of their victims including the uterus of female prisoners.
Nail extraction
Rape
'Cooking' - the victim strapped to a bed of wire that was electrified like a red hot toaster.
Prisoners sodomised with bottles and boiling eggs. |
the US did that?
The US is responsible for everything the Shah did?
| Quote: |
| But wait, I must be guilty of 'moral equivalency'. Gopher and company can create and support this kind of regime cos they're the good guys so it doesn't count! |
?? Moonbat land |
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cerulean808
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Joo Rip
| Quote: |
| Anyway if Israel belongs to the Arab world then why doesn't the Arab world belong to Turkey? |
The land rightfully belongs to the indigenous population of 'Palestine' not your notional 'Arab World'. Not to the Turks, the Israelis, nor the Brits, nor the French nor the Eskimos.
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| mideast states persecuted their Arab Jews. |
Even if true why do you think that justifies the dispossession of the Palestinians? If you think that's a good excuse to colonise, why don't you argue Germany be arm twisted into handing over turf.
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| Gopher didn't even vote for Bush. |
Gopher's voting habit doesnt much interest me. 'Moral equivalency' is a neo con invention. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
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| Anyone who doesn't agree with you and Pilger is a Neo Con. |
??
But thoughtful of you to bring up Pilger again. Last I remember you were frenetically cut and pasting screes of US State Department lies. Something bout Northern Iraq having a lower infant mortality rate proving Saddams evil devices, Saddam wharehousing needed medicine. Care to go back to that Joo Rip?
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| Gopher knows the history better than you do. |
 That's right, run to Daddy.
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| So what you are saying is cause the US helped the Shah get back in power that it excuse terror and attacks on the US |
Its not bout excuses, you know that Joo Rip.
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| The US is responsible for everything the Shah did? |
You violate another country's sovereignty, kick a democrat, install an authoritarian, ( what you euphemestically call 'helping' ) you take responsibility for what goes down. Ethics 101.
?? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The land rightfully belongs to the indigenous population of 'Palestine' not your notional 'Arab World'. Not to the Turks, the Israelis, nor the Brits, nor the French nor the Eskimos. |
Tthere were Arab Jews in the area too. Plus it the demographics of how people came to the region are widely in dispute. Some- maybe more of the Arabs of the area themselves came from different arab nations.
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| mideast states persecuted their Arab Jews. |
| Quote: |
| Even if true why do you think that justifies the dispossession of the Palestinians? If you think that's a good excuse to colonise, why don't you argue Germany be arm twisted into handing over turf. |
Arab Jews need a place. Bathists , Khomeni lovers and bin Laden followers persecute their minorities and cant't be trusted to rule fairly.
Many Arab people lost land in 1948 they should be paid for it. and would have under Clinton's peace plan.
Let it be known that Arab nations intended to do the same to the Jews of the area too.
There were Jews in the Area and their were Arab people in the area. The UN decided to divide up the land. The Arab nation didn't accept the partition they fought a war , they lost a war, many arabs lost land. (They of course ought to be compensated )then the Arab nations compounded the problem with the persecutions of Arab Jews
| Quote: |
| But thoughtful of you to bring up Pilger again. Last I remember you were frenetically cut and pasting screes of US State Department lies. Something bout Northern Iraq having a lower infant mortality rate proving Saddams evil devices, Saddam wharehousing needed medicine. Care to go back to that Joo Rip? |
wasn't state department lies Sadddam horded medicine and sold supplies.
Lets go back to it.
Besides Saddam never gave up his war. Freeing Saddam means at some point in time he attacks again.
Anyway you are against the sanctions , and against the war in Iraq.
So your answer is to let Saddam go free. What would he do to the Kurds?
What would he do after he iced them?
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That's right, run to Daddy. |
anyway lets wait for his response. He is very good on this topic so is Kuros.
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| So what you are saying is cause the US helped the Shah get back in power that it excuse terror and attacks on the US |
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| Its not bout excuses, you know that Joo Rip. |
then U explain it.
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| The US is responsible for everything the Shah did? |
| Quote: |
| You violate another country's sovereignty, kick a democrat, install an authoritarian, ( what you euphemestically call 'helping' ) you take responsibility for what goes down. Ethics 101. |
Everything?
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:58 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:52 am Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:10 am Post subject: ! |
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| cerulean808 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Before 1979 U.S.-Iranian relations were cordial. |
They sure were. |
TP/AJAX and the Shah's problematic security service are one thing. (And Joo, by the way, is right to point out that your knowledge of AJAX is limited to the partisan, U.S.-centric and antiAmerican indictment -- and little else -- not to mention your obstinacy in forcing the rest of us to respond to your constant allegations against the U.S., even when discussing items that pertain to other govts.)
Also, regarding your position against the U.S.: for future reference, please cite Zepezauer's book. Remind us: "Look! It is written here in this book! See!" Then the rest of us can say "thanks" and get back to exchanging views with one another.
Here, I'll link it for you...
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA%20Hits/CIA_GreatestHits.html
Here is Zepezauer's diatribe on TP/AJAX...
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA%20Hits/Iran_CIAHits.html
Remember: All you need to do is link Zepezauer, and tell us "Look! See! It is written here in this book!" Or try citing any of the denouncements of the U.S. that have come out of Latin America since about the mid-1950s (if you need it, I'll give you a bibliography).
This will save most of us much time because, as I have said before, we are already well aware of this position. Still, the problem is, many of us prefer to deal with evidence rather than unmitigated antiAmerican hysteria.
Back to the matter at hand: on your statement which I quote above, your sarcasm indicates that you have something to cite, something based on sufficient, direct evidence and not innuendo or cynical insinuation, that will show us how the U.S. and Iranian govts did not enjoy cordial relations before 1979, which was my claim.
Can you do that? No, you cannot.
And we are all descendants of peoples and cultures who violently displaced other peoples and cultures to form the political entities where we currently live, which, ultimately, includes everyone in the Arab Middle East, too.
However this may be, the UN and the rest of the international community partitioned Palestine in 1948 and established the State of Israel.
We, the international community, did this. It is international law.
The fact that you and those who think like you violently resist and reject this makes you and your motives transparent. You have no respect for international law and are openly antisemitic.
Moreover, you are little more than yet another violently antiEstablishment moron who inhabits this space, screaming at anyone who rejects such a simplistic and wholly uninformed worldview.
Finally, you seem to have seized upon this statement and gone apoplectic over it...
| Gopher wrote: |
| But what I do not understand is how you can continue to ignore the information I post on the causes and origins of the Arab-Israeli Conflict and how this shows, that no matter how far Israel has fallen, morally speaking, that, ultimately, Tel Aviv was not the instigator of this, was not, moreover, the aggressor, and, consequently, is not morally equal to its opponents in the intolerant antiIsraeli Arab Middle East. |
...yet I think you are taking my phrase "morally equal" and turning it into something else. Good luck in knocking down the strawman you have constructed, then, because, whatever it is, it has little to do with my views on the issue I raised above. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: ! |
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| Gopher wrote: |
[
(1) And we are all descendants of peoples and cultures who violently displaced other peoples and cultures to form the political entities where we currently live, which, ultimately, includes everyone in the Arab Middle East, too.
(2) However this may be, the UN and the rest of the international community partitioned Palestine in 1948 and established the State of Israel.
(3) We, the international community, did this. It is international law.
(4) The fact that you and those who think like you violently resist and reject this makes you and your motives transparent. You have no respect for international law and are openly antisemitic.
: |
(numbers are mine)
1. Which removes any moral standing those Westerners who scream about Palestinians being kicked out of "their" land had/have.
2. Good point. This is established international law. Isn't it funny how many of these same posters will complain about Bush not listening to the U.N. in regards to Iraq, yet ignore the U.N. when it's convienent to do so?
3. Again.
4. Right on. By this light we can clearly see that those who claim the Palestinians were "wrongfully" removed, are simply foolish or anti-semitic. There are NO other options. Period. And the more they struggle and claim otherwise, the more they reveal certain parts of their character which they would otherwise hide from public view. |
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cerulean808
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:17 am Post subject: |
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Gopher
| Quote: |
| TP/AJAX and the Shah's problematic security service are one thing. |
'Problematic' is how you describe a torture outfit like SAVAK? What do you mean they 'are one thing'?
| Quote: |
| ...your knowledge of AJAX is limited to the partisan, U.S.-centric and antiAmerican indictment -- and little else |
Predictable from you, screaming antiamerican at anyone who contradicts you or confronts you with some ugly facts about your government. So what is your knowledge of AJAX? Do you deny US involvement? Do you deny a democratically elected leader was overthrown and replaced by an authoritarian regime?
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| ...forcing the rest of us to respond to your constant allegations against the U.S. |
No ones forcing you to do anything Gopher. Maybe that's your fantasy...
And the idea of a distraught Joo Rip feeling forced to post (cue crocodile tears), yeah right
| Quote: |
| for future reference, please cite Zepezauer's book....Here, I'll link it for you...Remember: All you need to do is link Zepezauer |
WTF?! Attempting to foist a source on your opponent. Bonkers.
| Quote: |
| your sarcasm indicates that you have something to cite, something based on sufficient, direct evidence and not innuendo or cynical sinuation, that will show us how the U.S. and Iranian govts did not enjoy cordial relations before 1979, which was my claim. Can you do that? No, you cannot. |
Your playing a semantical game. I agreed that the U.S. had cordial relations with the Iranian govt. pre 1979 ( and we both know why they were cordial ). But it was not always cordial before then. Your hardly on cordial terms if your agents are orchestrating a coup now are you? You and your other blind patriots are on here asserting Iran is the aggressor harassing the US which has been innocently minding its own business. Your government was the aggressor, installed a brutal regime, toppled in turn by the fundamentalists and you act surprised and outraged that they're gunning for you?
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| And we are all descendants of peoples and cultures who violently displaced other peoples and cultures to form the political entities where we currently live, which, ultimately, includes everyone in the Arab Middle East, too. |
This justifies a continuing colonisation project now? Lame.
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| However this may be, the UN and the rest of the international community partitioned Palestine in 1948 and established the State of Israel. We, the international community, did this. It is international law... You have no respect for international law... |
Another baseless accusation. One thing that can be said is that the UN violated its own charter in dispossessing an indigenous population. However I believe in a two state solution but it has to be undertaken in light of whose making the big sacrifice. It's Israel which isn't adhering to the UN conditions and hasn't been doing so for a long time.
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| [ you ] are openly antisemitic. |
You seriously think you can intimidate me with that lie? Cheap and nasty.
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| The fact that you and those who think like you violently resist |
I'm violent now? Geeze you've really spat the dummy on this one.
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| Good luck in knocking down the strawman you have constructed |
Want to play dumb about 'moral equivalency'. Go ahead knock yourself out. You think I'm constructing a strawman when your foisting references on to me. Remarkable. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:30 am Post subject: |
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[quote="cerulean808"]
[
| Quote: |
| Your playing a semantical game. I agreed that the U.S. had cordial relations with the Iranian govt. pre 1979 ( and we both know why they were cordial ). But it was not always cordial before then. Your hardly on cordial terms if your agents are orchestrating a coup now are you? You and your other blind patriots are on here asserting Iran is the aggressor harassing the US which has been innocently minding its own business. Your government was the aggressor, installed a brutal regime, toppled in turn by the fundamentalists and you act surprised and outraged that they're gunning for you? |
What was the US doing to Iran in the 1990's when Iran was engaging in terror against the US. Indeed the bombing of the Marines in 1983 was before the US sided w/ Saddam against the Ayatollahs.
Again back to what you are saying cause the US helped the Shah come to power Iran is justified in using terror against the US in other nations. Moonbat logic and you are an apologist for the Ayatollahs.
Exactly what was the US doing to Iran in the 1990's that justified terror attacks against the US? Please inform us all.
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| And we are all descendants of peoples and cultures who violently displaced other peoples and cultures to form the political entities where we currently live, which, ultimately, includes everyone in the Arab Middle East, too. |
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| Another baseless accusation. One thing that can be said is that the UN violated its own charter in dispossessing an indigenous population. However I believe in a two state solution but it has to be undertaken in light of whose making the big sacrifice. It's Israel which isn't adhering to the UN conditions and hasn't been doing so for a long time. |
And their were also Arab Jews there/ and Jews that bought land fair and square from Arabs . Futhermore you don't consider any Arabs that came to the area from other arab lands. Moreover you have an Arab side of the conflict that is perfectly willing to dispossess arab jews. Put that into your equation.
Also figure that Israel has offered to compensate the Palestinians who lost land the 1948.
Is there anything there that is not true?
One more thing why are you so into selective criticism? (Fair question -no?)
If we are blind Patriots then you are like John Pilger blind with hated for the US so much so that you apologize and support any of its enemies.
Anyway see below.
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