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noguri



Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Location: korea

PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, PRagic, own king and super hero for your suggestions that things are done differently when teaching in Korea. I don't want to screw up my first semester and any hints about how things are done here can help me a great deal.

Here's another question, though. In the U.S., while I didn't have much power to eject students from the classroom, I did have the power to fail any student who...uh, flunked exams or didn't do homework, that sort of thing. And if I chose to assign five books, then so be it; the students had to read those five books, or else fail the exams.

However, now that I'm going to teach at a university in Korea, I've been told that I shouldn't make classes "too difficult" by assigning many essays to write or materials to read. It was suggested to me that I make classes fun and interesting. I am in favor of interesting classes, but it sounds like I don't have much power to make students do work outside of the classroom.

Is this the case? How many assignments can I give before I am asking the impossible of the students?
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SuperHero



Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout

PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

noguri wrote:
However, now that I'm going to teach at a university in Korea, I've been told that I shouldn't make classes "too difficult" by assigning many essays to write or materials to read. It was suggested to me that I make classes fun and interesting. I am in favor of interesting classes, but it sounds like I don't have much power to make students do work outside of the classroom.

Is this the case? How many assignments can I give before I am asking the impossible of the students?

Many universities are like that, fortunately mine is not - last semester I failed half a class because they did absolutely nothing all semester. The highest grade I gave to that class was a C, except for the one student who wasn't in that major and suffered as much as I did - he got an A+.

Fun and interesting is important, but don't make it fun just to be fun. The fun should have a pedegogical purpose behind it. Many of the games I have created in photoshop follow this principle.

You probably have some, limited, power to assign homework. Just be sure to have homework count towards their grade (10%, 20%, whatever) and when students get a poor mark you can just point to the homework as the reason.

Most universities also automatically fail students after so many skipped classes (mine is 6 classes out of 32). Using this most instructors subtract points for being late or absent.

In my classes students are given weekly homework. I estimate that the average assignment will take about 30 minutes for them to complete. Hope this helps.
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denverdeath



Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn

PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

noguri wrote:
Thank you, PRagic, own king and super hero for your suggestions that things are done differently when teaching in Korea. I don't want to screw up my first semester and any hints about how things are done here can help me a great deal.

Here's another question, though. In the U.S., while I didn't have much power to eject students from the classroom, I did have the power to fail any student who...uh, flunked exams or didn't do homework, that sort of thing. And if I chose to assign five books, then so be it; the students had to read those five books, or else fail the exams.

However, now that I'm going to teach at a university in Korea, I've been told that I shouldn't make classes "too difficult" by assigning many essays to write or materials to read. It was suggested to me that I make classes fun and interesting. I am in favor of interesting classes, but it sounds like I don't have much power to make students do work outside of the classroom.

Is this the case? How many assignments can I give before I am asking the impossible of the students?


It will depend on your place. How many students will you have? How many classes will you be doing? Are you doing std first-year conversation classes or will you also be doing some classes for English majors? Is there a set curriculum? Are the students also attending a Korean teacher's class and a listening lab? Are they doing CBTs? Better schools(I think anyway) will have 20-30 students in a freshman conversation class although I've heard crazy numbers like 70 for some places. I usu give three short written assignments, written mid-term, and spoken final. Those combined with attendance and participation will result in a student's final grade. Some places will grade on the curve and some will not. Some will have a pass/fail system, some will not. If the students don't do the work you require of them, you should be able to fail them. However, that'll all depend on where you work. Some administrators may complain that you fail too many students and you won't be offered an extension. You should make them work, but don't expect that much(not even from SKY students). If nothing else, make them talk. Get them to be somewhat fluent in a variety of topics. The more homework you give, the more work you'll be required to do(you'll probably not have a TA doing grading for you). I'd also be surprised if any of your students are able to write a good essay in English according to NA expectations. Most of them will have just got out of high school where they weren't expected to write essays even in their own language.
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noguri



Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Location: korea

PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Super Hero! Yes, that helps. In addition to homework I was thinking I would have in-class assignments, that the students work on in groups or else individually. These will be graded and added separately to the final grade.

Thanks also, Denver Death for your reply. I am not certain how many students I will have. I will be teaching a conversation class, a writing class, and two content classes for English majors. Those content classes are the ones in which I plan to assign some outside readings and I was warned not to assign too many...but how much "content" can I teach without some assigned readings?

Really, you say that Korean students aren't even taught to write in the Korean language in high school? Sounds stark.

I thought by assigning essays I was helping the students. When I taught in the U.S., students scored higher on my essay exams than they did on my multiple guess/fill-in-the-blanks. Why? Because I read an essay, and I think, "hmm, I sort of almost see what you were trying to say. Okay, not bad." But when I grade a multiple choice exam, each answer is either right or wrong, and there's no way of cutting slack.

Maybe it is just the case that Korean students feel more comfortable with multiple choice and fill-in-the-blanks. A cultural thing.
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denverdeath



Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn

PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

noguri wrote:
Thanks, Super Hero! Yes, that helps. In addition to homework I was thinking I would have in-class assignments, that the students work on in groups or else individually. These will be graded and added separately to the final grade.

Thanks also, Denver Death for your reply. I am not certain how many students I will have. I will be teaching a conversation class, a writing class, and two content classes for English majors. Those content classes are the ones in which I plan to assign some outside readings and I was warned not to assign too many...but how much "content" can I teach without some assigned readings?

Really, you say that Korean students aren't even taught to write in the Korean language in high school? Sounds stark.

I thought by assigning essays I was helping the students. When I taught in the U.S., students scored higher on my essay exams than they did on my multiple guess/fill-in-the-blanks. Why? Because I read an essay, and I think, "hmm, I sort of almost see what you were trying to say. Okay, not bad." But when I grade a multiple choice exam, each answer is either right or wrong, and there's no way of cutting slack.

Maybe it is just the case that Korean students feel more comfortable with multiple choice and fill-in-the-blanks. A cultural thing.


Sounds like you will have an okay variety of classes. You'll probably do the most work in your writing class. Hopefully, that will be the class where you will also see a lot of improvement. For the content classes, I would recommend some multiple choice, some short answer, and maybe a short-essay question, but that's your choice. A Korean high school teacher who used to take a hagwon class from me told me about the average Korean student's inability to write an essay. What they usu give here are tricky multiple-choice exams, although there are some variations. A lot of universities have a thesis requirement for graduation. However, that's written in Korean, not English. I'm not sure where they get the skills to do the writing. Maybe they have some sort of writing labs like we have back home?
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Keepongoing



Joined: 13 Feb 2003
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:16 pm    Post subject: amazing Reply with quote

i did a test for this class and talked to each student individually and they were all smiles and polite and yet I knew that one really hates me and 4 dislike me as a teacher and yet couldnot detect any animosity in any of them .How can they mask it so well?

I happenned to upset another one in class because I wrote the question:" Who is more Korean? Those living in the country or those in the city?' I explained that I meant traditional Korean. It was a discussion on City vs the Countryside. Anyway, this girl got very angry and defensive; stating that her family was just as traditonal as those in the country and she told me it was a strange question.

I don't think things are improving in this class. Oh, one girl stated that she believed people in that countryside were more traditional. Anyway, I did say that I did not know the answer. that I was just asking them.

Two weeks left, perhaps it is a lost cause already.
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fiveeagles



Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:53 am    Post subject: Re: amazing Reply with quote

MASH4077 wrote:
i did a test for this class and talked to each student individually and they were all smiles and polite and yet I knew that one really hates me and 4 dislike me as a teacher and yet couldnot detect any animosity in any of them .How can they mask it so well?

I happenned to upset another one in class because I wrote the question:" Who is more Korean? Those living in the country or those in the city?' I explained that I meant traditional Korean. It was a discussion on City vs the Countryside. Anyway, this girl got very angry and defensive; stating that her family was just as traditonal as those in the country and she told me it was a strange question.

I don't think things are improving in this class. Oh, one girl stated that she believed people in that countryside were more traditional. Anyway, I did say that I did not know the answer. that I was just asking them.

Two weeks left, perhaps it is a lost cause already.


Tough call. I just went through a period of transition with one of my more advanced classes. It used to be one the best classes, but it slowly degraded into one of my worst.

What I did was have them write out things they didn't like about the class and then the next class we worked together in ways to try to improve the class. I think they felt good, because I validated their emotions and raised their input from non-active to active. Meaning, that they could push the direction of the class. They became empowered to change their environment.

Might sound trivial, but they are really responding and their attitudes have really changed.

Anyway, sounds tough. Good luck!
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Gwangjuboy



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it really annoying that university students yield so much power over their foreign teachers but at the same time have no power over their Korean teachers. Something is definitely wrong there.
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rothkowitz



Joined: 27 Apr 2006

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korean students have ZERO qualms about complaining.

It could be anything.You might have spoken a little too quickly,they totally misunderstood some thing or they have a funny outlook on what they suppose their relationship with the teacher ought to be.

I've had adult students revolt on for these above reasons.I said a couple of sentences too quickly which put them in a spin,students thought I was here just to travel around a bit...well,duh!Whats wrong with that??!!and lastly because I didn't want to hang out with them at the weekend"Our last teacher did........."

I think perhaps signing up a kind of contract with them could make life a little simpler.

Certainly,student training ought to be an issue you could look at addressing.

BTW,Your question to the class about who might be considered more traditional....well,it is a slightly funny question I guess.But,one never knows how defensive Korean students are going to get.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gwangjuboy wrote:
I find it really annoying that university students yield so much power over their foreign teachers but at the same time have no power over their Korean teachers. Something is definitely wrong there.


Maybe because many foreigners would greatly prefer to teach in a university rather than a hakwon, they are more willing to accept certain conditions.

Though if I were applying for a job at a university and they told me what I could and couldn't do ( see noguri's post(s) ) I would say "I think we're just wasting each other's time." get up and walk out.

"Fun and entertaining"? He can't assign too many readings and essays? Who determines "too many"? The students?

Sounds like a hakwon/university.
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Real Reality



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gwangjuboy wrote:
I find it really annoying that university students yield so much power over their foreign teachers but at the same time have no power over their Korean teachers. Something is definitely wrong there.

Foreign scholars merit equal status
The foreign professor -- colleague or hired hand?
[Foreign professors] tend to be treated as hired hands, without academic standing, and lacking the possibility of career advancement or tenure. They must submit to yearly contracts (compensated at a rate only 60 percent of their Korean peers) while walled off from the permanent Korean faculty who benefit from travel, research funding, sabbaticals, etc. Moreover, when hundreds of Korean scholars enjoy such perks at American and other foreign universities, something is obviously amiss....
According to the Samsung Group's chairman, Lee Kun-hee, to succeed globally, Korea must forgo the thought that Korea and being Korean is superior, and foreign specialists must be treated with respect.
John B. Kotch, JoongAng Ilbo (June 14, 2002)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200206/14/200206142349223599900090109011.html

Foreigners Experience Difficulties in Living in Korea
by Jae-Dong Yu and Soo-Jung Shin, Donga.com (July 4, 2004)
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2004070522448
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Keepongoing



Joined: 13 Feb 2003
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:54 pm    Post subject: Thank you Reply with quote

Wow, I just received my end of semester evaluation. It was 95

The class that evaluated me before went up by 10 points

Oral Communications 100
Oral Communications 84.3
Public Speaking 98.6
Reading and Writing 97.1

I changed my approach and it worked. Thank you
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