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Conundrum for an anti-Islamic fundamentalist...
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R. S. Refugee



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:32 am    Post subject: Conundrum for an anti-Islamic fundamentalist... Reply with quote

Anwaar Hussain: 'The Neocons' greatest sin'


Of all the sins that the Neocons have committed, of all their deeds and misdeeds, of all their devious misconducts, there is one act of theirs that by far surpasses all the rest of their acts of omission and commission. And that is giving rise to a tidal wave of resurgence of Islamic radicalism from Africa to Indonesia.

Allow me to explain.

I was born in a moderate Pakistan and grew up to adulthood in General Zia's America inspired Jihadi times. I witnessed firsthand the invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviet juggernaut and the sudden mushrooming of American funded Jihadi outfits all over Pakistan to counter that. I saw the eventual decimation of the Soviet forces by those resistance fighters and the fateful demise of the Soviet Union, as the world knew it, as a result of that. I was younger then and was awed by the reported heroics of these Islamic fighters who stood in the way of a godless, alien force that wanted to subjugate not just Afghanistan but all the bordering countries in to absolute submission. I could rattle out of the names of all the 17 or so resistance organizations in Pakistan and Iran that were conducting operations inside Afghanistan. I remembered the names of all of their leaders. They were my heroes.

After a job well done, the Americans packed their bags and left, leaving behind Afghanistan to the same outfits that by then had started to show their true colors in a ruthless power struggle.



Amidst this chaos, I saw first hand the rise of Taliban, a movement the birth of which was midwifed by the ISI of Pakistan with a not-so-subtle help from America's CIA. I read about their heroic struggle to put an end to the internecine feuds of the power greedy warlords. In the end they did bring about a modicum of calm to that unfortunate country. The Taliban movement was started by ethnic Pathans and I, being one myself, had tremendous sympathy for their cause and their method.

Then the dream started to turn sour.

Reports started coming in of Taliban's' brutal massacre of the Hazara people of Afghanistan, an ethnic minority much despised by the Pathans for the unpardonable sins of being different in their looks and for being a part of Northern Alliance that resisted the Taliban's bid to rule over Afghanistan. Reports also started pouring in of macabre punishments meted out to ordinary criminals in Kabul's stadium. Men and women were stoned to death for the sin of adultery. Some women were stoned for the crime of their own rapes as they could not produce four pious witnesses who saw the act from close quarters as required by Taliban's interpretation of Shariah Laws. The killing of people was turned into a patent pleasure for a people deprived of all other entertainment in the name of Shariah. The Taliban banned all forms of television, imagery, music and sports. Even kite flying was declared a sin and a crime. Men were required to keep their beards at a specified length and women were forced to shroud themselves in thick bolts of cloth at all times. Women were also routinely beaten in Kabul's' streets for 'improper behavior' by the religious police..

One night I saw I saw a video of the execution of two Afghan women activists by the Taliban. To this day I wake up in cold sweat in the middle of the night from recurring nightmares.

That was also the night I developed insomnia for ever.

A little before that, the ruling Mullahs in Iran too had declared themselves the sole translators of the Divine and started whipping people, amputating their limbs and stoning them to death in the name of God. They fought a punishing eight years war with Saddam's Iraq. The Mullahs threw in their young men in women into that war promising them martyrdom and heavens even though they were fighting another Muslim people and not the so called 'infidels'.

Concomitantly, in Pakistan too extremist forces started calling the shots and that manifested itself in non-stop sectarian killings. Moderate voices hushed down and went into an impotent silence. The country of my birth launched itself firmly upon a course strewn with the blood, bones, and bodies of innocent victims. The whole nation slowly caged itself into an obscenity of horror in the name of God.

All these developments threw me into a conflicting state of mind and forced me to take a closer look at all religions, not just my own. With immense information, material and references now freely available on the internet, I soon started to think the hitherto unthinkable. I realized that I was a Muslim just because I was born into a Muslim faith and would have as fervently preached, practiced and defended any other faith had I been born into that. Since the fundamentalists of other faiths were not ruling countries as the Taliban and the Iranian Mullahs were at the time, my distaste for these radicals grew with each passing day. I was not alone in this thinking. There were people galore who, much more knowledgeable now in the just dawning information age, were finding it easy to break the choking stranglehold of the Mullah on themselves and their religion.

With that came the beginning of the end of my romance with the Taliban type of religion that was more interested in whipping, amputations and stoning of people, zeroed in on women and shook to its very roots every time a woman unveiled herself.

Then came Neocons on the scene and, through their villainous agenda, changed every thing for people like me.

Initially, one even sighed with relief on the demise of the repulsive Taliban despite the fact that it came with the blood of thousands of innocent Afghanis. It was better to be dead rather than be the living dead under the brutal edicts of Taliban likes, I argued to myself.

This feeling, though, was short lived.

With the invasion of Iraq, a modern secular state albeit ruled by a thug, the neocons started to unfold their real agenda. With the uncovering of their massive lies and the surfacing of reports of their insane butchery of Iraqi people, their mask came off within days. Beneath the shining facade of freedom, democracy and liberty, one found the hideous contours of mindless greed and naked ambitions. They soon bared their yellow fangs at the entire Muslim world in general, and at Iran and Syria in particular. Not very much later, they started a proxy war through Israel with the Hizbollah of Lebanon that rages on even as these lines are being written.

But lo and behold. Something extraordinary started to happen.

The Mubaraks, the Abdullahs and the Musharrafs of this world wilted like wax in the face of neocons' onslaught. They shook and trembled like thin reed in the morning winds. All the nationalist and secular forces in the Muslim world that should have resisted this by-then-thoroughly-exposed-offensive, evaporated into thin air and, in the process, stood totally discredited. Their place was taken by Islamist forces which became the only element in the entire Muslim world able to stand squarely on their legs, eye ball to eye ball with the neocons' forces, in the US/Israeli blitz on the Muslim world.

Due to the senseless arrogance and idiocy of the neocons, the arc of crises started spreading like wildfire from the seashores of the Mediterranean to the borders of Pakistan. This entire region is now in tumult with the Neocons fanned flames of unrest and revolt spreading like jungle fire in a forty knots wind. If the "war on terror" was meant to wrestle and control radical Islam, the neocons have now given it a momentum it could never have hoped to achieve on its own.

Consider the following.

Even as these lines are being written, Islamists are battling Israel in Gaza, engaging their forces in Lebanon, fighting the US occupation in Iraq, clashing with the American-propped Karzai puppet government and the coalition forces in Afghanistan and bringing Pakistan army's American-urged campaign to a screeching halt in North and South Waziristan. In fact in Afghanistan, the Taliban are in an unparalleled resurgence since their demise.

Then again, the only country having the nerve to stand up to Americans is none other than the Mullah-run Iran that is not only defending its right to nuclear power but providing succor to Hamas and Hezbollah. Even Syria, otherwise a secular country, finds itself in alliance with Islamist forces of Iran and Lebanon.

Not very far back, the Sunni Taliban and the Shia Iran were sworn enemies. Today, thanks to the neocons' absolute foolhardiness, they find themselves as allies battling a common enemy. Hamas has already stunned the world with a resounding victory at the polls. Iran is defiant, Syria remains uncompromising and now Hezbollah is taking on the might of the conceited Israeli army in a way no Arab army has ever done.

This puts me in a personal quandary. The earlier quoted instances of the Taliban types' brutality gave birth to the secular in me. I do not any more follow the rituals like I used to and find the Mullah's hate sermons no more than the blabbering of a dangerous idiot.

But when I look around the Muslim world, the ground reality instantly gives high voltage shocks to the liberal secular in me. I find that that the only forces resisting the neocons' ghoulish empire building excursion are none other than the very radical forces I so despised thus far. If these resistance forces are drawing their inspiration for all this from Islam, or their version of it, so be it. After all, the suicide bombers of the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka, admittedly the deadliest liberation organization on earth that makes the Al Qaeda legions look like a bunch of kindergarten kids, too must be drawing their inspiration from some set of beliefs.

The time has come to decide- just like George Bush, the neocons' poster boy, once said-"You are either with us or against us." For me, and millions more like me in the Muslim world, the option has now boiled down to being with the assailant or the victim, the tormenter or the tormented. The choice, I think, is abundantly clear.

The following courageous words of Sheikh Hasan Nasrallah, the Secretary General of Hezbollah, have been addressed to the bigheaded Israelis. These also serve as a chilling reminder to the gutless Muslim leadership to reach back and rediscover their lost spine.

"You are fighting a people who have faith such as no one else on the face of the earth possesses... who take pride in their history, their civilization and culture, who also possess material power, expertise, knowledge, calm, imagination, determination and courage. In the coming days it will be between us and you, God willing."

http://smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=27171&mode=nested&order=0


Last edited by R. S. Refugee on Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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W.T.Carl



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess it is time to start killing Muslims.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i just wasted a few minutes of my life.
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deadman



Joined: 27 May 2006
Location: Suwon

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent article.
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Mastaoos69



Joined: 14 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I guess it is time to start killing Muslims

you only have yourself to blame for your ignorance.
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Summer Wine



Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The following courageous words of Sheikh Hasan Nasrallah, the Secretary General of Hezbollah, have been addressed to the bigheaded Israelis. These also serve as a chilling reminder to the gutless Muslim leadership to reach back and rediscover their lost spine.

"You are fighting a people who have faith such as no one else on the face of the earth possesses... who take pride in their history, their civilization and culture, who also possess material power, expertise, knowledge, calm, imagination, determination and courage. In the coming days it will be between us and you, God willing."


Oh, that can only mean muslims can feel the above. I feel the same for my own country, beliefs and ideals and maybe I am an individual, but I will support my own beliefs as much as they do.

Sometimes I feel that non muslims believe the same issues and it might be scary what the result will be between them and others. I won't surrender to my enemy. The fact that I support peace over war doesn't make me weak.
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flip ant



Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Location: He's got high hopes!

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deadman wrote:
Excellent article.


My *** it is. Just another "blame the U.S. and, in particular Geo. Bush" piece of Islamist facist filth. These people will find anyone, everyone if need be, to blame for their problems. NOTHING is ever their fault. It is someone else's fault if members of their own religion kill others of THE SAME RELIGION. Believe me, I've lived amongst them, and these people are the scum of the earth. Is the U.S. blameless and perfect? By no stretch of the imagination. But I think you give the country too much credit by making them the cause of all humanity's problems. I just wish the Muslims/Arabs would grow up.

Mod edit: Please watch the language!
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main reason why there are terroists is cause mideast regimes , elties, and the media there teach hate and incite violence for their political objectives.

Quote:
A controversy brewing in Saudi Arabia is instructive. Several weeks ago, when the U.S. was gearing up for the assault on Fallujah, Salman al-Awdah, a popular preacher who had close ties to al Qaeda in the '90s, signed, along with 25 colleagues, a declaration that made fighting the U.S. in Iraq an obligation for able-bodied Muslims. This sly document left it an open question as to whether Iraqis and Saudis were equally obliged to fight. The authors of the declaration wanted to have it both ways--to garner the benefits of association with al Qaeda abroad without suffering any consequences at home.
But many Saudis have grown tired of this game, and are working to expose clerics for playing fast and loose with peoples' lives. The reformist newspaper al-Watan revealed that Mr. al-Awdah subsequently enlisted the aid of the Saudi security services in order to prevent his son Muadh from joining the jihad in Iraq. Muadh, it seems, had decided with some friends to go and fight America. "God permitting," he said in a message to his family, "we have an appointment with paradise." In an effort to prevent him from keeping this date, Mr. al-Awdah contacted Prince Muhammad bin Nayef, No. 2 at the Saudi ministry of Interior. The authorities quickly found the young men, and returned them safely to their families.

Mr. Al-Awdah's frantic call for help revealed two levels of hypocrisy. First, it shattered his carefully crafted image as a courageous fighter for Islam, a man who speaks truth to power. For someone supposedly independent of the regime, he has cozy ties with the Saudi secret police. Second, it unmasked his true feeling about the anti-American jihad: Let Iraqis kill themselves.

Mr. al-Awdah is today less concerned about fueling the jihad than he is about saving his reputation. He is quibbling over the details of al-Watan's report, claiming defamation and threatening a lawsuit. Al-Watan has responded by saying, in effect: Bring it on. If he dares to do so, Mr. al-Awdah may well find himself with more legal burdens than he cares to shoulder. The father of a Saudi boy who did in fact find his death in Iraq has gone to the media expressing his intention to sue Mr. al-Awdah and the other 25 clerics who issued the fatwa supporting the jihad. And to make matters worse, the government of Kuwait--a predominantly Sunni country--has banned the offending clerics from its soil.

Whatever Saudis may think of U.S. policies, they first and foremost disagree among themselves about the character of their society. In fact, the Saudis use the debate about America as a proxy for their own conflicts, which at base have little if anything to do with the Bush foreign policy. When Mr. al-Awdah called for jihad against the U.S. in Iraq, he was striking a blow against secular reformers--"Americanizers"--in Saudi Arabia. His enemies, for their part, are using the pages of al-Watan to launch a counterattack to advance their domestic agenda.



http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110006014



It is worth nothing that the mideast street didn't get made when Saddam gassed the Kurds, nor did they get made when Haffaz Assad destroyed the city of Hama. They didn't get upset when Khomeni killed tens of thousands of muslims during his purges. Nor do they say anything when Osama Bin Laden kills muslims. What was the relgion of the Northern alliance?


I am no fan of Robert Fisk but look below:

Quote:

As usual in the Arab world, everyone knew what was happening and no one said a thing. The British and American pilots flying the pointless southern "no-fly" zone � allegedly to protect Iraq's minorities � could clearly see the receding waters of the Marsh. The Arab regimes remained silent. Neither Mubarak nor Arafat nor Assad nor Fahd uttered the mildest word of criticism, any more than they did when the Kurds were gassed.


http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0519-02.htm


That is the real truth of the mideast.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flip ant wrote:
deadman wrote:
Excellent article.


My ass it is. Just another "blame the U.S. and, in particular Geo. Bush" piece of Islamist facist filth. T


You should have stopped there. The rest was a little over the top (kinda like the article Wink ).
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ddeubel



Joined: 20 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
These people


You have shown your colours...........people who use this term have a "quiet bigotry" and don't even know it. I called Joo on his use of "these people" several months back. I call you on it -- get rid of your latent bigotry and get educated about the issues.

I didn't like the article either. Not because it was anti-Bush but because it doesn't arrive at the proper conclusion --- stop the hate, stop picking up the guns and bombing, stop the revenge. Start talking by saying, I won't kill you............unconditionally.

I can't believe those who would even contemplate using that term "these people..." . Sounds facist. Unfortunately not anywhere close to being out of dead.

DD
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ddeubel wrote:
Quote:
These people


You have shown your colours...........people who use this term have a "quiet bigotry" and don't even know it. I called Joo on his use of "these people" several months back. I call you on it -- get rid of your latent bigotry and get educated about the issues.

I didn't like the article either. Not because it was anti-Bush but because it doesn't arrive at the proper conclusion --- stop the hate, stop picking up the guns and bombing, stop the revenge. Start talking by saying, I won't kill you............unconditionally.

I can't believe those who would even contemplate using that term "these people..." . Sounds facist. Unfortunately not anywhere close to being out of dead.

DD



You are not worth the time for a new post: So I will just repost this:


Except when you asked me who I meant by these people I answered.

Bathists , Khomeni followers , Bin Laden lovers and Hizzbollah supporters.


extreme anti muslim views?

It isn't anti muslim to tell the truth about Al Qaeda the Bathists , Hizzbollah and the followers of Khomeni. Anymore than it is anti Japanese or anti German to tell about their governments during world war II.

It is anti Russia to tell the truth about communist Russia?

extreme anti muslim views?

Prove it.


I have no care and no feelings toward their reglion at all. However I do hate Al Qaeda , Hizzbollah , Khomeni and the Bathists. Why would any sane person not hate them?

The Bathists have killed MUSLIM Kurds. I wonder is it anti muslim to write bad things about Bathists?

Bin Laden has killed MUSLIMS- what religion were the Northern alliance?


Saddam Hussein, Bin Laden and Khomeni have killed TENS OF THOUSANDS OF MUSLIMS. Only a moonbat like you would equate criticism of their movements, and idelogies as being anti muslim.

Good that I brought up Bin Laden here cause your reasoning is the same as his. And you can be sure that Al Qaeda appreciates your message.

Show me a single anti muslim comment . Just ONE will do.

You won't and you can't.

More nonsense from you wannbe dissident.


Quote:
�if they (Jews) all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide.�

Hizbullah leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah

Nasrallah alleges �Christian Zionist� plot
The Daily Star ^ | October 23 2002 | Badih Chayban

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/774649/posts


What do you think now? Not a hate group?


http://www.fas.org/irp/news/1998/05/980520-iran.htm

what do you think now? Notg a hate group




Quote:
AMIA Bombing


The bombing
On July 18, 1994, a powerful bomb made of ammonium nitrate was driven in a van through the front gates of the AMIA building in the Once district near downtown Buenos Aires. The building was a seven-story structure which was the headquarters of Argentina's Jewish community. The bomber detonated the bomb, levelling the building and reducing it to rubble, along with nearby buildings.

Eighty-five people died, most of them Jewish. More than three hundred others were wounded. The attack came two years after the 1992 Israeli Embassy Attack in Buenos Aires that killed 29, and a day before a bomber blew himself up on a Panamanian commuter plane, killing 12 Jews and 9 others. Eight days after the AMIA attack the Israeli Embassy in London was car-bombed by two Palestinians linked to Hezbollah.

In the days following the bombing, Israel sent Mossad agents to Argentina to investigate and Argentina closed its borders for fear more terrorists could enter. It is thought possible that the bombers entered Argentina through the Triple Frontier, where the borders of Argentina, Brazil, and Paraguay meet. Argentina's intelligence agency, the SIDE, is said to have set up a network of surveillance called "Centauro" in Paraguay, where many Muslim extremist cells are said to be located. In the years following the attack SIDE is said to have stopped another attack on Argentine soil.


Responsibility
Argentina, Israel and the US[1] suspect that Hezbollah was behind the attack, with backing from Iran. Hezbollah denies responsibility.[2] Israeli diplomatic sources who read the "final" report by SIDE on the attack said in 2003 that the attack was a suicide bombing carried out by Ibrahim Hussein Berro, a 29-year-old Muslim who has been honored with a plaque in southern Lebanon for his "martyrdom" on July 18, 1994, the date of the bombing. This was confirmed by SIDE, the FBI, and Berro's relatives in November 2005. [3]

A Lebanon-based group called "Partisans of God" claimed responsibility for the AMIA blast, but the claim has been discounted. In 1999 an arrest warrant was issued against Hezbollah member Imad Mugniyah, in connection with the attack. In August 2003, Britain arrested Hade Soleimanpour, a former Iranian ambassador to Argentina, at the request of the Argentinian authorities. He was later released because, according to the Home Office, there was not enough prima facie evidence for the extradition of Hade Soleimanpour to proceed [4]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMIA_Bombing


Not a hate group?


Lets see all I want is for Iran to give up their war.

Your spin is cause the US helped the Shah come to power that Iran's attacks and agenda and their war are justified.

YOu are an apologist for the Ayatollahs.


No you are a fool and a wannbe dissident.

What religion are the Kurds?

You have no facts, zero evidence , don't know history and can't answer anything.

What you are is an moonbat excuse maker for those who are against the US. Nothing else other than that.

You come up with this post cause you got nothing , no facts and never had them to being with.

Deebuel you are one stupid moonbat. and you are an apologist for fascism and a terrorist sympathiser.

Nothing more than that!


Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Sun Aug 06, 2006 2:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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Nambucaveman



Joined: 03 Aug 2006

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello All,

If this thread turns into a flaming war, then it will get yanked. Debate the facts as you want, but if things get out of hand then it will be stopped.
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Mastaoos69



Joined: 14 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The main reason why there are terroists is cause mideast regimes , elties, and the media there teach hate and incite violence for their political objectives


And you can prove this? So what is the media in the western world teaching then hmm? That America and/or 'coalition' is the greatest and everyone else is nothin but a germ on a toilet seat? You want an anti-muslim comment? Islamic fundamentalist. These ppl aint muslims. They're preaching their modified version of Islam. You guys need to get it out of your head that this so called Jihad that they are waging is nothing. Period. How can we really know whats going on there when we're being fed edited tapes from anti-muslim networks. I saw CNN a few days ago, i nearly threw up when i saw an Israeli business owner crying over a chipped wall in his shop. What did those innocent kids do to deserve all this shit? Its gotta stop. Period. You can make peace without war.
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

And you can prove this?


Yep.

Go to Memri. Also consider the fact that there was no reaction in the mideast when Saddam gassed the Kurds , or when Khomeni mass killed or when Bin Laden kills muslims. Can you explain why?

Most mideast regimes are like the government of North Korea. They control the media and they pay the clerics, they know what the elites do and they have excellent security services.





Quote:

So what is the media in the western world teaching then hmm? That America and/or 'coalition' is the greatest and everyone else is nothin but a germ on a toilet seat?



that is not what the western media teaches , and at any rate the western media is better than the State run media of the mid east.



Quote:
You want an anti-muslim comment? Islamic fundamentalist. These ppl aint muslims. They're preaching their modified version of Islam. You guys need to get it out of your head that this so called Jihad that they are waging is nothing. Period. How can we really know whats going on there when we're being fed edited tapes from anti-muslim networks. I saw CNN a few days ago, i nearly threw up when i saw an Israeli business owner crying over a chipped wall in his shop. What did those innocent kids do to deserve all this *beep*? Its gotta stop. Period. You can make peace without war.[



I don't know much about the muslim religion, but I guess it is more or less the same as other relgions. actually my understanding the muslim world was historically more tolerent than the west . I have nothing against the religon

However Khomenism , Bathism , Bin Ladensim and Hizzbollahsim are are evil ideologies. All of these groups oppress their minorities. There supporters are evil too.

How could anyone say otherwise?
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ddeubel



Joined: 20 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't know much about the muslim religion


other than to call them "these people" , as if they were some plastic widget from an ACME factory.......

your Khomeneists, Bathists, selective atrocity theories are very old and tired. So our your out of date articles and your recopying everything from a dog eared filing system. Also please learn to articulate your thoughts in some complete and understandable fashion. What you print comes out like diaareah........

Arabs , Persians, Muslim nations have problems. But you paint them all with one brush and have no nuance and only hate. Take a bath.

DD
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