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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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 Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
English is a living breathing language, an evolving entity. There are no rules. So long as your understand what meaning is being conveyed it doesn't matter.
if i agreed with you, you'd have to agree with me that American english is horribly flawed and incorrect. But apparently its all in the eye of the beholder. or behearer, nobody can preside in judgement. Let him who never says 'aint" slang the first stone. |
judgment |
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pegpig
Joined: 10 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:31 am Post subject: |
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I didn't read the whole 4 pages (I have a life). Quibbling over grammar. Some guys must have been a real hoot in high school. Probably the same guys who were complaining about books being misshelved in the library.
What did you do on the weekend? Makes sense to me.
At the weekend? Where is that? That makes no friggin sense.
Now you've sucked me into this silly little game.  Time to get out. |
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jinks
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Location: Formerly: Lower North Island
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| Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| jinks wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
As for Brit English being better, I disagree. It's older, thus more fossilized. ON the weekend? Egad.... On Friday, on Saturday, fine. But the weekend is TWO days, for frick's sake. During the weekend? Fine. ON the weekend? Aargh...AT hospital. At THE freakin' hospital, OK?? |
Umm, one variety of English is not better than another, though there certainly are differences.
"As for Brit English being better, I disagree. It's older, thus more fossilized."
INCORRECT: As well as being very innovative in creating new forms, US English has held onto a lot of archaic usages, long since abandoned by British English speakers. 'Ain't' is a good example of older language usages being retained by American English speakers, long after British English speakers have forgotten them. Interestingly 'Americanisms' that are often resisted by purist British English speakers are usually old British forms reintroduced via International (US) popular culture.[/i] |
Links, sir jinks? Cuz I ain't buyin' just yet. So, let's see.... the Brits get less grammatical, but this makes them better speakers of English? Bollox. Brits don't use ain't? Bollox.
I am, actually, a descriptivist. You'll notice I did not actually state an opinion in my reply above, I simply pointed out the fallacies stated by the other poster.
Nice try, though.
| jinks wrote: |
| With regard to your / you're, don't be such a flake and try to pass off ignorance as "living language" it's a freaking spelling mistake. Be an English teacher, sure there is no need to flame your friends or social connections for English errors, but if you are an English teacher you should know the difference! |
I certainly hope this wasn't directed at me. |
OK, so you are a descriptivist and your point that British English is not better than other varieties of English was not an implication that other varieties of English are better than British English. We are on the same page on this one.
While we are on the 'you said, I said' jag, you didn't say that one language variety is better than another - and I didn't say that British speakers never use 'ain't '. I said recent purist speakers of British English resisted the use of ain't because it was perceived to be an Americanism, but really it is just one of many older British usages that survived in the US long after they fell into misuse in the UK. Here is the link you asked for, I'm sure a search will produce many others
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=ain%27t&searchmode=none
By telling you not to be such a flake (yes the 'you' was directed at you), I did make the mistake that many posters make - that is, insulting other people just because you disagree with a point in a discussion - and I am sorry. I have no way of knowing if you are a flake or not and I take it back. I apologise, but I do stand by my point that as English teachers we will notice a lot of non standard usages amongst English speakers in informal (and sometimes even formal) situations. All speakers will shift from one language register to another, depending on social context, and a message board is an informal social context. The language style posters use here is different from other written contexts (lesson plan, job application, essay etc.), but it is clear that some of the English used here is simply bad spelling or grammar, not just informal usage. The main culprits are often pointed out as being 'definately' and 'rediculous', and now the op's bugbear, the your/you're mix up; these errors occur so frequently within individual posts that they are obviously spelling mistakes not typos or miscues (my personal danger zone is past and passed as well as their and there, of course I know the rule, but they will catch me out from time to time). I'm no spelling god, I even had a moment of terror in a demonstration lesson where I forgot how to spell 'attractive' (I got the job though), but as English teachers we should know how to avoid common spelling errors if we are going to teach others how to use the English language,
Personally, I don't teach spelling. Most of my courses are conversational English for freshmen, the course work involves speaking, listening and filling in the blanks. I was horrified the first time I had to mark mid-terms and the co-ordinator told us that incorrect spelling meant the answer was wrong. I had not taught my students how to spell, just how to speak and listen (conversational English, right?). I do not take points off fom conversational English students' spelling mistakes, but speakers (native or not) of above average proficiency are not doing themselves any favours if they are unable to master most common spelling errors; and if they are teachers, they are not doing their students any favours either. |
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SirFink
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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Some of you guys are too sensitive about getting your grammar and spelling corrected. Rather than lash out at the guy correcting you, can't you just go "oh, yeah, duh!" and move on with your life, hopefully spelling "you are" as "you're" from now on.
I used to work as an editor and 99% of what I fixed was "your (you're)" and "to (too)" and the dreaded "their, there, they're." That's it. Forget all the philosophizing and "get a life, grammar nazi!" crap and just grow the ten brain cells it takes to remember the above three things and you'll be fine.
Now one of you twerps reply with a "your an idiot!" and it will make my day. |
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Kwangjuchicken
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| SirFink wrote: |
Some of you guys are too sensitive about getting your grammar and spelling corrected. Rather than lash out at the guy correcting you, can't you just go "oh, yeah, duh!" and move on with your life, hopefully spelling "you are" as "you're" from now on.
I used to work as an editor and 99% of what I fixed was "your (you're)" and "to (too)" and the dreaded "their, there, they're." That's it. Forget all the philosophizing and "get a life, grammar nazi!" crap and just grow the ten brain cells it takes to remember the above three things and you'll be fine.
Now one of you twerps reply with a "your an idiot!" and it will make my day. |
I have said this before. I will say it again. Of all the major languages in the world, English is the only one that has no official rules. A long time ago, President Jefferson tried to get an English Language Acadamie started. But it never worked out. If you want to argue about lanuage rules, than forget English and use a language that does have official rules.
For example, French, Spanish, Italian, German, Korean, Japanese, Sweedish, Vietnamese, Danish, Greek, Rusian, Turkish, and a ton more. But I have to run now. And, in honor of Englisg having no official rules, I ser nuf ain't gonna chek this for typos before I send it. |
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jinks
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Location: Formerly: Lower North Island
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| Kwangjuchicken wrote: |
| SirFink wrote: |
| Some of you guys are too sensitive about getting your grammar and spelling corrected. Rather than lash out at the guy correcting you, can't you just go "oh, yeah, duh!" and move on with your life, hopefully spelling "you are" as "you're" from now on.I used to work as an editor and 99% of what I fixed was "your (you're)" and "to (too)" and the dreaded "their, there, they're." That's it. Forget all the philosophizing and "get a life, grammar nazi!" crap and just grow the ten brain cells it takes to remember the above three things and you'll be fine.Now one of you twerps reply with a "your an idiot!" and it will make my day. |
I have said this before. I will say it again. Of all the major languages in the world, English is the only one that has no official rules. |
How about the DICTIONARY? |
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Kwangjuchicken
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| jinks wrote: |
| Kwangjuchicken wrote: |
| SirFink wrote: |
| Some of you guys are too sensitive about getting your grammar and spelling corrected. Rather than lash out at the guy correcting you, can't you just go "oh, yeah, duh!" and move on with your life, hopefully spelling "you are" as "you're" from now on.I used to work as an editor and 99% of what I fixed was "your (you're)" and "to (too)" and the dreaded "their, there, they're." That's it. Forget all the philosophizing and "get a life, grammar nazi!" crap and just grow the ten brain cells it takes to remember the above three things and you'll be fine.Now one of you twerps reply with a "your an idiot!" and it will make my day. |
I have said this before. I will say it again. Of all the major languages in the world, English is the only one that has no official rules. |
How about the DICTIONARY? |
Which one? |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:04 am Post subject: |
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| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| Junior wrote: |
English is a living breathing language, an evolving entity. There are no rules. So long as your understand what meaning is being conveyed it doesn't matter.
if i agreed with you, you'd have to agree with me that American english is horribly flawed and incorrect. But apparently its all in the eye of the beholder. or behearer, nobody can preside in judgement. Let him who never says 'aint" slang the first stone. |
judgment |
http://www.yourdictionary.com/library/misspelled.html
judgement
"Judgement" is governed by one of the rare rules of English orthography, so why not enjoy it? After [c] and [g], [e] is retained to indicate the letter is "soft," i.e. pronounced like [s] or [j], respectively. Omitting it indicates it is "hard," i.e. pronounced [k] or [g], as in "fragment," "pigment". If we write "management," "arrangement," we should write "judgement," "acknowledgement," "abridgement." The presence of the [d] is of no significance to English orthography. |
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Kwangjuchicken
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| Well, all I know is that she said I was a perfect idiot. So, I told her, "Well at least I am good at something". |
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jinks
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Location: Formerly: Lower North Island
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| Kwangjuchicken wrote: |
| jinks wrote: |
| Kwangjuchicken wrote: |
| SirFink wrote: |
| Some of you guys are too sensitive about getting your grammar and spelling corrected. Rather than lash out at the guy correcting you, can't you just go "oh, yeah, duh!" and move on with your life, hopefully spelling "you are" as "you're" from now on.I used to work as an editor and 99% of what I fixed was "your (you're)" and "to (too)" and the dreaded "their, there, they're." That's it. Forget all the philosophizing and "get a life, grammar nazi!" crap and just grow the ten brain cells it takes to remember the above three things and you'll be fine.Now one of you twerps reply with a "your an idiot!" and it will make my day. |
I have said this before. I will say it again. Of all the major languages in the world, English is the only one that has no official rules. |
How about the DICTIONARY? |
Which one? |
An English one.
You may find some slight variations in usages or spellings, but a good dictionary will give you an excellent guide of how to spell and use English words. Obviously, American dictionaries will list American usages as default and give the British usages a secondary, or non-standard, listing. It is incorrect to say that English has no rules. How about spelling, punctuation and word order? How about subject verb agreement? How about pluralisations? If English has no rules, how come you and I, and everyone else teaching English in Korea (Japan, Thailand, China etc.) are hired to teach our native language?
Even hangman has rules. |
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drumpounder
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Grammer Schmammer...wears the whine? Oooooppps......sorreee, I ment wine eh!  |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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One thing to remember is that for us, these errors are not a big deal as we can easily see the difference. But for a language learning student, it can be a big deal. When one of my language teachers makes a mistake, it can leave me guessing. Most of the time, I just ask, but not all language learners are willing to ask if the teacher made a mistake or not. Also, they might think it is something new.
I also agree that for the people taking it like they just slammed their mothers, it's not a big deal. Just say, "Ya, stupid mistake." and learn from it. |
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Kwangjuchicken
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| jinks wrote: |
| Kwangjuchicken wrote: |
| jinks wrote: |
| Kwangjuchicken wrote: |
| SirFink wrote: |
| Some of you guys are too sensitive about getting your grammar and spelling corrected. Rather than lash out at the guy correcting you, can't you just go "oh, yeah, duh!" and move on with your life, hopefully spelling "you are" as "you're" from now on.I used to work as an editor and 99% of what I fixed was "your (you're)" and "to (too)" and the dreaded "their, there, they're." That's it. Forget all the philosophizing and "get a life, grammar nazi!" crap and just grow the ten brain cells it takes to remember the above three things and you'll be fine.Now one of you twerps reply with a "your an idiot!" and it will make my day. |
I have said this before. I will say it again. Of all the major languages in the world, English is the only one that has no official rules. |
How about the DICTIONARY? |
Which one? |
An English one.
You may find some slight variations in usages or spellings, but a good dictionary will give you an excellent guide of how to spell and use English words. Obviously, American dictionaries will list American usages as default and give the British usages a secondary, or non-standard, listing. It is incorrect to say that English has no rules. How about spelling, punctuation and word order? How about subject verb agreement? How about pluralisations? If English has no rules, how come you and I, and everyone else teaching English in Korea (Japan, Thailand, China etc.) are hired to teach our native language?
Even hangman has rules. |
The only reason I posted on this thread was because of the first post in this thread. So, look at my first post in response to his. I will quote it so it will be after this one. Oh, and his post time was 553. My appartment number. and 5+5+3= 13 and 1+ 3= 4. The 13th of April, my birthday. |
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Kwangjuchicken
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: You + are = you're |
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| Kwangjuchicken wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
'You' is a pronoun. 'Are' is a verb (the 'be' verb to be specific). When you put them together, they equal 'you're'. The meaning stays the same.
'YOUR' on the other hand, is a possessive pronoun. Like 'Your shirt is blue. My shirt is yellow.'
While an occassional mistake or typo is natural, it isn't that fu*king difficult to keep these two words separate. Yes, I know you're (you are) mom called tonight with bad news about you're (you are) family and your (house? car?) in a bad mood, but you're (you are) bad grammar doesn't have that excuse. Christ on a cookie. Get with the program. |
What in the world inspired you to make this thread?
Ok. Let me try one.
'I' is a pronoun. "The" is an article. (The definite article to be specific.)
Put them together and you get "I the". Then we can add more words and get a sentence. "I think the thread is stupid." Mohammad on a croissant. Get with the program. |
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SirFink
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| jinks wrote: |
| How about the DICTIONARY? |
A dictionary is not a set of rules about the proper way to use a language. Rather, it is put together by a group of editors who act as reporters or anthropologists, essentially, who simply catalog the most popular usage of the language. Thus, we have American Dictionaries, British Dictionaries, etc. Thus, you find words like "irregardless" in a dictionary. Why? Because many people use it and the compilers of a dictionary are merely reporting on its usage.
That said, "you are" still equals "you're."  |
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