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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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 Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:33 am Post subject: |
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Your sites well they are just hillarous. I think you need to put more of them.
Please post more. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| Butterfly wrote: |
| I quite sincerely hope Israel and Palestine blow each other into *beep* oblivion so the rest of the world can move on. I used to sympathize with the Palestinian cause but when they elected Hamas after Israel had started making concessions in the West Bank, I lost my faith in it. Israel is showing it's usual total disregard for human life and international law, so *beep* them too. |
Throw in the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers AFTER Israel pulled out of Gaza and yeah, my sympathy has waned as well. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Don't think Israel thought of this when it decided to invade Lebanon this time around:
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| "Hezbollah took Lebanon hostage, and then came the tragedy we all know," wrote Lebanese columnist Dalal al-Bizri in the pan-Arab daily Al-Hayat on Sunday. "Ironically, as the number of victims increases, the party becomes more popular." |
Arabs Anger at their Governments Grows |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:29 am Post subject: |
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The "Arab Street" certainly excels at rage, anger, indignation, and the associated disciplines of Jew-hatred, America-hatred, flag-burning, using children-as-terrorist-props, marching on flags, lynching, consulate burning, suicide-bombing, photograph manipulating, staged expressions of grief, wailing towards the sky, and generally throwing blame all around the world.
Not sure if any of these skills will lead to much for them. Somewhere in it all is the possible seed of creativity...maybe even violent, blood-curdling horror flicks....
we could call it Hezbollywood-
just imagine the hordes of ululating Arab women clad in billowing burkhas, that would scare the bejeezus out of 4 year-old movie goers. Maybe the Hindus from Bollywood in Mumbai could supply the seed money, unless they get blown up first. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:18 am Post subject: |
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The "Arab Street" certainly excels at rage, anger, indignation, and the associated disciplines of Jew-hatred, America-hatred, flag-burning, using children-as-terrorist-props, marching on flags, lynching, consulate burning, suicide-bombing, photograph manipulating, staged expressions of grief, wailing towards the sky, and generally throwing blame all around the world.
Not sure if any of these skills will lead to much for them. Somewhere in it all is the possible seed of creativity...maybe even violent, blood-curdling horror flicks....
we could call it Hezbollywood-
just imagine the hordes of ululating Arab women clad in billowing burkhas, that would scare the bejeezus out of 4 year-old movie goers. Maybe the Hindus from Bollywood in Mumbai could supply the seed money, unless they get blown up first. |
From this post I can only conclude that you believe what you consume...........so this is how you see the world with your low calorie diet. You must be a tomato because........
DD |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:43 am Post subject: |
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No dube,
I believe what I see,
You believe what you WANT to see.
big big difference.
I'm actually all for what you want to see, for it is what I want to see...however,
I am not capable of creating my own reality, as are folks like you. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| If one Hizbollah remains standing at the end of the war, Israel will have lost. |
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bignate
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Location: Hell's Ditch
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| Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| If one Hizbollah remains standing at the end of the war, Israel will have lost. |
And perhaps the US, and the US Israeli relationship as well.....
The US and Israel: a marriage under pressure
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Washington dismayed
Condoleezza Rice is an immediate casualty, with critics making unfavourable comparisons between her and former secretary of state Henry Kissinger. Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney, meanwhile, remain uncharacteristically quiet, while the Pentagon rushes to re-supply Israel with weapons. Even this is becoming problematic as anti-war groups act against the refuelling stops in Britain; the original stop-over at Prestwick in Scotland has become increasingly insecure in the face of mounting protests, so United States transport planes are having to use military bases at Mildenhall (Suffolk) and Brize Norton in (Oxfordshire), both in southern England.
US neo-conservatives are still somewhat reluctant to criticise the Bush administration, but much of the ire that is circulating is being directed at Israel's prime minister, Ehud Olmert. In this mindset, there is abundant recognition of the explicit relationship of the Lebanon war to the global war on terror, and a particular concern that anything less than a victory will embolden that very centre of the axis of evil: Iran. The Tehran government's pointed response to the UN Security Council's 31 August deadline � that it would, instead, expand enrichment activities � is seen as one indicator of this.
One of the most influential neocon commentators, Charles Krauthammer, has made the point that "Israel's leaders do not seem to understand how ruinous a military failure in Lebanon would be to its relationship with America, Israel's most vital lifeline". In his view: "America's green light for Israel to defend itself is seen as a favour to Israel. But that is a tendentious, misleading partial analysis. The green light � indeed the encouragement � is also an act of clear self-interest. America wants, America needs, a decisive Hizbollah defeat" (see "Israel's Lost Moment", Washington Post, 4 August 2006).
Krauthammer points out that an Israeli defeat of Hizbollah "would be a huge loss for Iran, both psychologically and strategically. Iran would lose its foothold in Lebanon. It would lose its major means to destabilize and inject itself into the heart of the Middle East. It would be shown to have vastly overreached in trying to establish itself as the regional superpower."
In using such language Krauthammer is echoing a much more general view within the Bush administration, discussed earlier in this series: namely, that "Iran is the real problem, and that it is appropriate for Israel to cripple or even destroy its surrogate, Hizbollah, across the border in Lebanon" (see "A proxy war" 19 July 2006).
In addition to his weekly openDemocracy column, Paul Rogers writes an international security monthly briefing for the Oxford Research Group; for details, click here
A collection of Paul Rogers's Oxford Research Group briefings, Iraq and the War on Terror: Twelve Months of Insurgency, 2004-05 is published by IB Tauris (October 2005)
From such a perspective there are now ominous signs of Hizbollah resilience, coupled with recognition that anything short of a comprehensive defeat by Israel would be seen as a victory that would further embolden Tehran. In these circumstances, Olmert and possibly Rice will take the blame.
Charles Krauthammer's criticism of Olmert may be a journalistic foretaste of political judgments to come; Olmert's "�search for victory on the cheap has jeopardized not just the Lebanon operation but America's confidence in Israel as well. That confidence � and the relationship it reinforces � is as important to Israel's survival as its own army. The tremulous Olmert seems not to have a clue."
The remarkably close relationship between Israel and the United States has evolved over forty years and has probably never been closer than under George W Bush; an especially important factor here is the religious connection involving the evangelical Christian churches and especially Christian Zionism (see "Christian Zionists and neocons: a heavenly marriage" 3 February 2005). That this relationship is now under strain gives some indication of the unexpected impact of the Lebanon war of 2006, an impact that may now have considerable and long-term implications for Bush's overall war on terror. |
So, could a lack of complete victory over hezbollah, even if the majority of their infrastructure is destroyed denote an Israeli failure, in relation to the war on terror and their relationship with the United States?
They are losing because there is no way that there can be a complete victory in a military campaign against terrorists, particularly one so dynamic, so systemic, so well supported as Hezbollah... |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the article / post, bignate.
Two things I drew from it , other than the "strain" of Israeli-U.S. relations.
One. America produces the bombs, weapons that kill all over the world. More so in Israel. I would not be surprised if Hizzbollah is using U.S. weaponry, so easily it is acquired and so easily the U.S. sells it soul......
The U.S. has no right to have a war on drugs when it sells products so widely, that kill so much more effectively.....
Two. The article talks about relations between countries, military tactics, who will win and who will maneouver how and when...etc..........Meanwhile the poor , sick, weak, old are being killed. Fodder. We have no civilization, just powerbrokers playing with people's lives for things they think , "might" happen. Pity. I look at the faces of the everyday people and only can cry like Kurtz and his premonition on the Congo...."the horror, the horror."
DD |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
I believe what I see,
You believe what you WANT to see.
I am not capable of creating my own reality, as are folks like you. |
I suspect you actually believe this. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| Butterfly wrote: |
| I quite sincerely hope Israel and Palestine blow each other into *beep* oblivion so the rest of the world can move on. I used to sympathize with the Palestinian cause but when they elected Hamas after Israel had started making concessions in the West Bank, I lost my faith in it. Israel is showing it's usual total disregard for human life and international law, so *beep* them too. |
Butterfly, those wonderful concessions were a bunch of crap. Read the fine print more carefully. Occupying Gaza became too costly, and the plan was that by withdrawing Israel could crow about how generous and wonderful they were while tightening their grip on the more coveted juicy territory in the West Bank. There were only about 8000 settlers in the Gaza any way. Only the most extreme fundamentalist loonies (we are talking jewish fundies here) wanted to settle it, and the goverment had tried very hard to bribe new immigrants to settle there with promises of cheap housing and all sorts of wonderful subsidies (courtesy of the unwitting US tax payer) and still not too many wanted to go there. So in the end they rightly concluded: Why bother with it? They still kept a strangle hold on it and kept it as a f***ing awful place for the native population to live in. They just withdrew to its borders, but kept it effectively as a huge prison for its 1 million inhabitants. Then they cruelly withheld the inhabitants tax and watched as the place became a real hell hole as salaries were unpaid and vital services were run down.
I think Hamas was voted in because of desperation. The PLO have been next to useless for decades, and it was time for a change. Why not try Hamas? After all, sucessive Israeli governments were teeming with former terrorists from the Irgun Group, the Stern Gang, Lehi etc
BTW, I completely lost my sympathy for the Israelis when they voted the Butcher of Beirut to be their Prime Minister. Sharon had been considered a war criminal since the 50s. Read up how he dealt with innocent women and children, and he makes even the most notorious Hamas operations look like child's play.
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Throw in the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers AFTER Israel pulled out of Gaza and yeah, my sympathy has waned as well. |
Ho hum, and did the Israeli act of kidnapping 2 civilians (a Palestinian doctor and his brother) the day before this event that you mention cause your sympathy for Israel to wane as well? After all, kidnapping civilians is a far greater violation of international law than kidnapping soldiers. Or was this inconvenient fact completely ommitted in the US press (as usual). Such a big fuss the next day when the soldier was abducted. No uproar in the US press about the fate of thousands of prisoners, including women and children, that have been incarerated in Israeli gaols in complete violation of international law. No uproar about the children who mature into adults in Israeli gaols. No sympathy for those poor little bastards eh?
The US media coverage of this situation is an interesting exercise in what is known as the double standard. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:26 am Post subject: |
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It's all lead up to the salvation of Israel,
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So, it is now in this season that even your hidden enemies shall arise, and yes, it shall seem as even on one day that the whole world has forsaken you. But know this, O Israel: they may forsake you, but I will never forsake you-they may desert you, but I, the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel will never forsake you. No never so. When the veil starts to be lifted from those who profess to be your friends, and your allies start to scatter to the uttermost parts of the Earth-so in that moment you shall hear the sounds of war, and the sounds of war shall increase. Yes, and in the twinkling of an eye, so shall they unite against you. And you shall say: We are without help. We shall be driven into the sea. But I tell you that in that day in and in that hour you shall call upon my Name, and I Myself shall sovereignly scatter them.
Journal of the Unknown Prophet |
Israel, though under the judgment of God, will arise and become the great nation that it is destined to be. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:22 am Post subject: |
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It's all lead up to the salvation of Israel,
Quote:
So, it is now in this season that even your hidden enemies shall arise, and yes, it shall seem as even on one day that the whole world has forsaken you. But know this, O Israel: they may forsake you, but I will never forsake you-they may desert you, but I, the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel will never forsake you. No never so. When the veil starts to be lifted from those who profess to be your friends, and your allies start to scatter to the uttermost parts of the Earth-so in that moment you shall hear the sounds of war, and the sounds of war shall increase. Yes, and in the twinkling of an eye, so shall they unite against you. And you shall say: We are without help. We shall be driven into the sea. But I tell you that in that day in and in that hour you shall call upon my Name, and I Myself shall sovereignly scatter them.
Journal of the Unknown Prophet
Israel, though under the judgment of God, will arise and become the great nation that it is destined to be.
_________________ |
200 Proof WACKO.
How is one to disprove that. Get thyself to a doctor (but a nunnery would suffice.....)
DD |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:30 am Post subject: |
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I wrote previously that I exchanged several letters in the early 80s with Irving Layton, mostly about the role of Israel and in particular the world view of "the Jew"...........
We disagreed and agreed. He believed in a strong Israel armed to the teeth. I am not sure that he would agree that she kill others with impunity and so unecessarily . But he damn sure wanted her to have enough fighter jets to protect herself from the world's type that would mock and scorn and try to kill "the Jew"....
I agree with Israel being strong but also being moral. Israel should have a high standard and has lost that path/way....
I finally found a copy of "For my sons Max and David" which he wrote in the late sixties.....
[img]http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/b78/255/b78255b7-dfc4-4f34-8387-9270c0385b25[/img]
| Quote: |
For My Two Sons, Max and David
The wandering Jew: the suffering Jew
The despoiled Jew: the beaten Jew
The Jew to burn: the Jew to gas
The Jew to humiliate
The cultured Jew: the sensitized exile gentiles with literary ambitions aspire to be
The alienated Jew cultivating his alienation like a rare flower: no gentile garden is complete without one of these bleeding hisbisci
The Jew who sends Christian and Moslem theologians back to their seminaries and mosques for new arguments on the nature of the Divine Mercy
The Jew, old and sagacious, whom all speak well of: when not lusting for his passionate, dark-eyed daughters
The Jew whose helplessness stirs the heart and conscience of the Christian like the beggars outside his churches
The Jew who can be justifiably murdered because he is rich
The Jew who can be justifiably murdered because he is poor
The Jew whose plight engenders profound self-searchings in certain philosophical gentlemen who cherish him to the degree he inspires their shattering aper�us into the quality of modern civilization, their noble and eloquent thoughts on scapegoatism and unmerited agony
The Jew who agitates the educated gentile, making him pace back and forth in his spacious well-aired library
The Jew who fills the authentic Christian with loathing for himself and his fellow-Christians
The Jew no one can live with: he has seen to many conquerors come and vanish, the destruction of too many empires
The Jew in whose eyes can be read the doom of nations even when he averts his eyes in disgust
The Jew every Christian hates, having shattered his self-esteem and planted the seeds of doubt in his soul.
The Jew everyone seeks to destroy, having instilled self-derision in the heathen
Be none of these, my sons
My sons, be none of these
Be gunners in the Israeli Air Force
Irving Layton, The Shattered Plinths |
DD |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| Butterfly, those wonderful concessions were a bunch of crap. Read the fine print more carefully. Occupying Gaza became too costly, and the plan was that by withdrawing Israel could crow about how generous and wonderful they were while tightening their grip on the more coveted juicy territory in the West Bank. There were only about 8000 settlers in the Gaza any way. Only the most extreme fundamentalist loonies (we are talking jewish fundies here) wanted to settle it, and the goverment had tried very hard to bribe new immigrants to settle there with promises of cheap housing and all sorts of wonderful subsidies (courtesy of the unwitting US tax payer) and still not too many wanted to go there. So in the end they rightly concluded: Why bother with it? They still kept a strangle hold on it and kept it as a f***ing awful place for the native population to live in. They just withdrew to its borders, but kept it effectively as a huge prison for its 1 million inhabitants. Then they cruelly withheld the inhabitants tax and watched as the place became a real hell hole as salaries were unpaid and vital services were run dow |
n.
they held the tax because Hamas is an organization dedicated to destroying Israel.
Again of course Israel would control the border because Hamas is an organization dedicated to destroying Israel.
Of course the West Bank would be part of a Palestinian state if Arafat had accepted Bill Clintons' peace plan.
| Quote: |
| BTW, I completely lost my sympathy for the Israelis when they voted the Butcher of Beirut to be their Prime Minister. Sharon had been considered a war criminal since the 50s. Read up how he dealt with innocent women and children, and he makes even the most notorious Hamas operations look like child's play. |
Ok but you still sympathize with the Palestinian side even though they elected Arafat and then Hamas.
Hamas of course would have done much more if they had the power to do so. It is not like they haven't tried.
Q: Does Israel act worse than other nations during war time?
| Quote: |
| Ho hum, and did the Israeli act of kidnapping 2 civilians (a Palestinian doctor and his brother) the day before this event that you mention cause your sympathy for Israel to wane as well? After all, kidnapping civilians is a far greater violation of international law than kidnapping soldiers. Or was this inconvenient fact completely ommitted in the US press (as usual). Such a big fuss the next day when the soldier was abducted. No uproar in the US press about the fate of thousands of prisoners, including women and children, that have been incarerated in Israeli gaols in complete violation of international law. No uproar about the children who mature into adults in Israeli gaols. No sympathy for those poor little bastards eh? |
What are many of those prisoners there for?
I bet many would go free if Hamas gave up their war. I bet many would go free under the terms of a peace treaty.
But then as you know Hamas is an organziation dedicated to destroying Israel.
by the way no big up roar from you about mass murder by Israel's enemies, or their persecution of their minority groups or ethnic cleansing.
Why doesn't Hamas just give up its war?
| Quote: |
| The US media coverage of this situation is an interesting exercise in what is known as the double standard. |
[/quote]
Well compare Israel to those fighting against it.
Well no comparision. |
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