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Should we let kids feel stung?
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laogaiguk



Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:36 am    Post subject: Should we let kids feel stung? Reply with quote

Should we let kids feel stung?
Quote:
Should we let kids feel stung?
Some question move to protect children from exclusion, failure

Tuesday, August 8, 2006; Posted: 8:10 p.m. EDT (00:10 GMT)


(AP) -- Penny Grossman cringes each time a student mentions a birthday party during class at her Boston, Massachusetts-area preschool. The rule there, and at a growing number of America's schools, is that parties and play-dates shouldn't be discussed unless every child in the room is invited.

Gone are the days when a kindergartner dropped a handful of party invites in the classroom cubbyholes of their closest buddies. Today, if anyone is excluded the invitations can't be handed out at school.

The idea that protecting kids from rejection is crucial to safeguarding their self-esteem has gained momentum in recent years.

Take Valentine's Day: At some schools, a second-grader can't offer paper valentines or heart-shaped candies to a short list of pals and secret crushes anymore. They give cards to everyone or no one at all.

Or sports: In many towns, scorekeeping no longer happens at soccer or softball games played by kids under 8 or 9. Win or lose, every player in the league gets a trophy at the season's end.

As with many child-rearing trends, some parents and educators see wisdom where others spot foolishness. Many see a mixture of both.

"You try and do things gently when they're little because it is still hard," says Grossman, who is raising two teenagers while teaching preschool. "But I think this is a problem, and it's a growing one, because kids grow up and have this inflated sense of self-worth. Whether they earn anything, it's always a trophy. They have no sense that you have to work hard for some things."

Susan Reel, a mother of two living in Madison, Connecticut, doesn't see a downside to inviting the whole class to a birthday party.

"When they're in first and second grade, their friends are so day-to-day. It's who they played with yesterday," she says. "So to pick one or the other is shortsighted on the parents' part."

She believes that schools are paying more attention to children's feelings because they understand better today the damage done when a small group of kids is consistently excluded.

"When we went to school, people were bullied. Now we know kids have a much greater instance of suicide and depression when they've been bullied," she says.

Jolie Nichols, also a mother of two, disagrees. She believes kids in her Minneapolis neighborhood would benefit from competing for a trophy or handling a mild bit of rejection.

"It's just natural and it's realistic to have to deal with these things," she says. At her 7-year-old daughter's gymnastics class, everyone receives the same ribbon or medal for their performance, regardless of how well they've done.

Rather than imparting self-esteem, some experts believe this gives kids an unhealthy sense of entitlement.

"Self-esteem comes from those feelings you have about yourself for a job well done, for when you have achieved something," says Dr. Georgette Constantinou, administrative director of pediatric psychiatry at Akron Children's Hospital in Ohio. "It's not something you pour into your children."

She feels that many parents aren't equipping their kids to manage basic challenges.

"How do you expect them to handle life's big bumps if they haven't experienced the little ones?" she asks.

No one disagrees that disappointment is real: There are contests we all lose, parties we're excluded from. But what motivates so many parents to postpone that reality until their children reach the age of 10 or beyond?

For one thing, kids' lives are so tightly scheduled today that we're enrolling smaller and smaller children in organized activities. It may be true that 6-year-olds aren't ready to handle losing a T-Ball championship; a generation ago, 6-year-olds wouldn't have even been playing team sports.

Parents may also be reacting to their own economic and career stress by trying to protect their kids from it.

"This group is balancing things that previous generations haven't had to balance," says Constantinou. "The number of women in the work force is phenomenal, probably the largest since the war years, so you have a lot more stressed parents."

Busy parents turn to schools and other care-givers for help, says Mike Sanchez, co-owner of Camp Innovation, a Houston, Texas-area day camp. It does offer competitive games, but also gives each camper an award each week.

"I tell counselors, always find something specific about the kids," Sanchez says. "It helps with parents who say they may not be cleaning at home or working well with a brother or sister. We work on it, and then give them an award for best spirit of the week, best cleaner of the week."

Critics of the trend worry about a generation of kids who haven't experienced rejection or failure -- especially compared with countries such as China and Japan, where a focus on competition defines the lives of many children.

Learning to compete, says Nichols, is vital. "It sets them up for real life things like a job," she says. "It helps people develop their skills."

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.


I totally agree with the first bolded part, but think we should make sure we never, ever do a 180 and become like the second bolded part. A happy medium is needed (for almost everything in life really).

I don't see why BigVerne is so worried about Muslims, it's actually these new breeds of psychologists, sociologists, etc etc that are the real threat to our society. Wink This is just one example.
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jinju



Joined: 22 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are raising a generation of wimps. God have mercy on us. Or rather on those idiots. Maybe Tom Cruise is right? Pychologists should be lined up against a wall and shot. Nork style.
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happeningthang



Joined: 26 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jinju wrote:
We are raising a generation of wimps. God have mercy on us. Or rather on those idiots. Maybe Tom Cruise is right? Pychologists should be lined up against a wall and shot. Nork style.


So you hate everything about the NK except their psychologist killing policy?? Any statement that follows, "maybe Tom Cruise is right..." should be disregarded, surely.

Kids are kids, at that age I don't think it matters what you do. A little bit of rejection, and they shrug their shoulders and it's on to the next thing. Win a trophy earned or otherwise and it's "Mum, Mum, look at this!!!", and then they leave it outside. I think it's only an issue if a pattern of rejection is repeated throughout their lives that's allowed to build up into a Columbine massacre sized resentment.
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ajuma



Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I raised 2 boys and both were on winning teams and losing teams. When they won, great! When they lost...well, you tried hard, but they were better. Maybe next time.

Sorry folks, but everyone is NOT equal and the sooner kids learn that lesson the better!! You can take pride in the fact that you competed, that you did your best. Just because someone did better doesn't take away from the fact that YOU did the best that you could!

As for inviting a whole class to a birthday party? How many parents could afford THAT????
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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"When they're in first and second grade, their friends are so day-to-day. It's who they played with yesterday," she says. "So to pick one or the other is shortsighted on the parents' part."


I'd say he's too old. Who you played with yesterday? No, more like yesterday and the day before and the day before and the day before that - see a pattern?
He's stupid. I liked the same girl from grade 1 to grade 6. Elementary was actually when I was most consistent on that sort of thing.
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laogaiguk



Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mithridates wrote:
Quote:
"When they're in first and second grade, their friends are so day-to-day. It's who they played with yesterday," she says. "So to pick one or the other is shortsighted on the parents' part."


I'd say he's too old. Who you played with yesterday? No, more like yesterday and the day before and the day before and the day before that - see a pattern?
He's stupid. I liked the same girl from grade 1 to grade 6. Elementary was actually when I was most consistent on that sort of thing.


I totally agree.

Did you marry her? Smile
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vox



Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Location: Jeollabukdo

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's a response to transfering competitive events (e.g. soccer) down to increasingly younger ages, and discovering some of what gets handed down isn't necessary below a certain age, and then some dummy trying to unilaterally declare a new evil to be banished.

I just saw a Korean soccer match two mornings ago with 4 and 5 year olds running around. They looked like they were having fun, but I would hope that kids that young would not be thinking that trying is only good if you win. For very young ages, I liked the idea in the article of giving trophies to all participants. Roughly after the age of 6, it should be fine to expose them to competition.
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Tiberious aka Sparkles



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: I'm one cool cat!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jinju wrote:
We are raising a generation of wimps.


I blame the nerds. They even outlawed dodgeball!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodgeball

_*_
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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

laogaiguk wrote:
mithridates wrote:
Quote:
"When they're in first and second grade, their friends are so day-to-day. It's who they played with yesterday," she says. "So to pick one or the other is shortsighted on the parents' part."


I'd say he's too old. Who you played with yesterday? No, more like yesterday and the day before and the day before and the day before that - see a pattern?
He's stupid. I liked the same girl from grade 1 to grade 6. Elementary was actually when I was most consistent on that sort of thing.


I totally agree.

Did you marry her? Smile


No, she moved away suddenly after grade 6 and then vanished. 쳇! I totally should have made a move back in grade 2 when we used to run home along that back path together.
She could even do this thing with her eyes where both of them move to the outside, like the opposite of crossing your eyes. That made her the perfect woman.
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RACETRAITOR



Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It should be interesting to see how a generation that does not know how to cope with pain, loss, hard work, or rejection will develop.
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cosmicgirlie



Joined: 29 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is happening with today's kids is parents are raising toxic children or pampered children. We are witnessing the Rx generation. Children are increasingly becoming more of a behavioural challenge at an earlier age because parents don't have the skills to raise their children. Any generational/familiar help via their extended relatives is becoming scarce with the mobility of people.

The education system in North America is set up for people in the 1950's. It has removed the arts/music/physical education component from the curriculum. It also focus' too much on testing instead of teaching children.

Kids are also becoming extremely lazy. They would rather veg out in front of the tele or their computer/game system at the early age instead of getting outside and enjoying their imaginative side of things. Unfortunately kids are consumers now, which has taken away any sense of imagination play. Instead of making a plane out of a cardboard box they have the plane wings they can attach to their back with a sound box. Kids don't know how to play.

We all know how the diet of these children is affecting them. They rarely have home cooked meals. Everything comes from a box for them. This phenomenon always baffled me whenever I worked in a group home or custody setting with kids. I love the kitchen, I love cooking great home cooked meals. I was raised to appreciate the kitchen and fresh food. Whenever I cooked a home cooked meal for the kids they would turn their nose at it. They would rather have Kraft Dinner or Frozen Dinners instead of home cooked meals.

There is no sense of community for kids today either. They live in fear of the "stranger". Of all the kidnappings of children that happen a small percentage is stranger kidnapping. It usually boils down to a parent that kidnapps the child to punish the other parent. Because of this fear of strangers kids won't go outside to play. So they sit in their houses watching TV becoming consumers instead of reading a book and learning about the world of imagination.

Can you tell I'm pretty passionate about this kind of thing. I agree, there are a lot of psychologists/sociologist/social workers out there who dont have the first clue about how to raise children. They write crap books and get spots on talk shows which is damaging. However, there are some great books out there that talk about the Toxic Child and the Pampered Child. It touches on the how to deal with what I've always called "The Emperor Syndrome." One of them is "The Pampered Child Syndrome--Dr. Maggie Mamen" and the other is "Toxic Childhood Syndrome--Sue Palmer". I know I know...books that could be damaging--but as someone who reads up on this stuff these seem to be exactly what I've felt as a front line staff in some places. Hence my little "breaks" away from the field via ESL gigs here and there. You really can only handle so much of the little emperor!
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ajuma



Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmicgirlie: You are SO right! I'm just finishing up a summer camp (this can apply to both Korean and Western kids) and 99% of the kids will be happy to go home because they can play computer games and watch TV!! What happened to "Go outside and play"????
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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ajuma wrote:
cosmicgirlie: You are SO right! I'm just finishing up a summer camp (this can apply to both Korean and Western kids) and 99% of the kids will be happy to go home because they can play computer games and watch TV!! What happened to "Go outside and play"????


Well, to be honest camp can really suck. Depending on the season of course - I have one memory of a really good camp but that was because I met a really cute girl there and we got to swim together so that made all the difference. But the camps in October were the worst and being in a sleeping bag when it's really warm on the inside and freezing on the outside, yuck. Nature's good but not when you don't know what you're doing.
I often wonder what would happen after two weeks or so though. Usually after two days it really sucks but if you had to keep staying there I wonder if you would start to really like it or just go insane. Maybe it depends on the character of the person.
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cosmicgirlie



Joined: 29 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ajuma wrote:
cosmicgirlie: You are SO right! I'm just finishing up a summer camp (this can apply to both Korean and Western kids) and 99% of the kids will be happy to go home because they can play computer games and watch TV!! What happened to "Go outside and play"????


Fear of Strangers...that's what happened! Don't go outside you might get kidnapped. The other thing is fear of the weather. The heat is going to hurt the child so they better stay inside in the AC room....or the winter cold is going to kill them so they better stay inside. Don't forget about fear of bugs. The scary bugs are going to kill my child(albeit there are killer bugs out there but education fixes that problem),

Ohhhhh this issue gets me so hoping mad. I'll leave now before I go on another rant about it!
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Roch



Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmicgirlie wrote:
What is happening with today's kids is parents are raising toxic children or pampered children. We are witnessing the Rx generation. Children are increasingly becoming more of a behavioural challenge at an earlier age because parents don't have the skills to raise their children. Any generational/familiar help via their extended relatives is becoming scarce with the mobility of people.

The education system in North America is set up for people in the 1950's. It has removed the arts/music/physical education component from the curriculum. It also focus' too much on testing instead of teaching children.

Kids are also becoming extremely lazy. They would rather veg out in front of the tele or their computer/game system at the early age instead of getting outside and enjoying their imaginative side of things. Unfortunately kids are consumers now, which has taken away any sense of imagination play. Instead of making a plane out of a cardboard box they have the plane wings they can attach to their back with a sound box. Kids don't know how to play.

We all know how the diet of these children is affecting them. They rarely have home cooked meals. Everything comes from a box for them. This phenomenon always baffled me whenever I worked in a group home or custody setting with kids. I love the kitchen, I love cooking great home cooked meals. I was raised to appreciate the kitchen and fresh food. Whenever I cooked a home cooked meal for the kids they would turn their nose at it. They would rather have Kraft Dinner or Frozen Dinners instead of home cooked meals.

There is no sense of community for kids today either. They live in fear of the "stranger". Of all the kidnappings of children that happen a small percentage is stranger kidnapping. It usually boils down to a parent that kidnapps the child to punish the other parent. Because of this fear of strangers kids won't go outside to play. So they sit in their houses watching TV becoming consumers instead of reading a book and learning about the world of imagination.

Can you tell I'm pretty passionate about this kind of thing. I agree, there are a lot of psychologists/sociologist/social workers out there who dont have the first clue about how to raise children. They write crap books and get spots on talk shows which is damaging. However, there are some great books out there that talk about the Toxic Child and the Pampered Child. It touches on the how to deal with what I've always called "The Emperor Syndrome." One of them is "The Pampered Child Syndrome--Dr. Maggie Mamen" and the other is "Toxic Childhood Syndrome--Sue Palmer". I know I know...books that could be damaging--but as someone who reads up on this stuff these seem to be exactly what I've felt as a front line staff in some places. Hence my little "breaks" away from the field via ESL gigs here and there. You really can only handle so much of the little emperor!


The public schools in Boston, Massachusetts in the 1950s offered a full range of courses - including fine art and physical education. Society was much more literate then it is now. Sure, illiteracy in the U.S. includes immigrants who can not read nor write in English. But, the respect the average person on the street had for a learned person was, by all acounts, noticeably higher at that time.
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