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| You can ONLY CHOOSE ONE, which would it be? |
| Give me LIBERTY or give me death |
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82% |
[ 19 ] |
| Guaranteed State Security |
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17% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 23 |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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 Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:33 am Post subject: Freedom OR Security? |
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There's a famous quote attributed to Ben Franklin that essentially reads:
Those who trade freedom for security does not deserve, nor will they ever receive either.
Other public figures are known to have expressed similiar sentiments.
What do you think?
Are you happy to forfeit or sacrifice your personal freedoms, civil rights & the like in the face of a few bombs going off, various other acts of "terror", MAFIA-styled intimidation tactics & the like, or are you genuinely committed to resisting ALL forms of tyranny? |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| You're hysterical. Having extra security checks at the airport is hardly an infringement on people's freedom. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| You're hysterical. Having extra security checks at the airport is hardly an infringement on people's freedom. |
Ummmmmm ... where did i post this? |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| Please explain how my liberty and freedom are infringed by tighter security measures. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:17 am Post subject: |
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BigVerne wrote:
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Please explain how my liberty and freedom are infringed by tighter security measures.
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Yeah, seeing as how the UK doesn't have a Bill Of Rights, I guess you can't lose what you never had, eh? |
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safeblad
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:23 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, seeing as how the UK doesn't have a Bill Of Rights, I guess you can't lose what you never had, eh? |
actually the UK does have a bill of rights |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Please explain how my liberty and freedom are infringed by tighter security measures. |
I guess it all depends on whether or not you adhere to the 4th Amendment. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:42 am Post subject: |
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If Jeff Rense and his supporters came to power the result would be a fascist police state.
But they are not goiing to be allowed to come back. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I guess you can't lose what you never had, eh? |
You make the UK sound like a police state, yet it is one of the most liberal countries in the world. The freedoms I am most worried about conceding relate to freedom of speech, and the Labour party has attempted to limit this freedom to appease Muslims who get violent when people 'defame' their 'prophet'.
As for measures taken to protect the security of the UK, they do not greatly affect my freedom, as they mainly affect people called Saeed and Mohammed, and the various Muslim organisations such individuals join. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Did you see "V for Victory"
It sums it up quit nicely.
My opinion is if a governement is prepared to reduce the liberties of the individual for the sake of safety, they are heading towards a fascist era.
Culture will stop to evolve and they slowly will become envious of everyone else, and at the same time feel "Supremacy".
I will tell you what i now about America, whom i consider to be slowly drifting into Fascism, if that is possible.
MassMedia, controled by some type of powergroup. Only shows the people a limited truth, the problem with truth is, if you conceal just a little bit of it, it becomes a LIE.
Protecting Borders; these days we need retinal scans to get in America (yes i know, over the top ...)
Politics of Fear; The governement is making the people afraid, afraid for their lives, they make people increase their probability of dying a violant death, just by using said Media. People who are afraid, are easily manipulated.
US vs THEM; well use your own imagination on this one
flame on |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| My opinion is if a governement is prepared to reduce the liberties of the individual for the sake of safety, they are heading towards a fascist era |
An absurd and extreme opinion. When there are people willing to commit mass murder, necessary measures must be taken to protect people's safety. |
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safeblad
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| You make the UK sound like a police state, yet it is one of the most liberal countries in the world |
situation in the UK
More cctv than ANYWHERE in the world
24,000 innocent kids DNA on police criminal database
terrorisms act, asbos, etc eroding principles of magna carta and free speach
police execution of suspected terrorists.....
politics of fear yes.... |
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safeblad
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:30 am Post subject: |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| police execution of suspected terrorists..... |
The police mistakenly kill someone they suspect of being a suicide bomber just weeks after a successful suicide bombing and people start making 'police state' comparisons as if we are living under the Stasi. It is absurd.
The UK is still a free and open society, although of course we should be concerned about threats to our freedoms if they do arise. But making comparisons to East Germany is ludicrous.
Also the idea that the government has conjured up the terrorist threat is ignorant nonsense. People were murdered on 9-11, and on 7-7, so yes we should be concerned, and we should take the necessary measures to ensure our safety. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:35 am Post subject: |
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Safeblad wrote:
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Quote:
Yeah, seeing as how the UK doesn't have a Bill Of Rights, I guess you can't lose what you never had, eh?
actually the UK does have a bill of rights |
News to me, but I am prepared to stand corrected.
Do you mean the UK has a document like the American Bill Of Rights or the Canadian Charter, which the courts can use to overturn laws passed by the parliament that infringe upon the rights and freedoms of the citizens? |
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