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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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 Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Having read a few of the OP's posts, I'd be far more concerned about his influence on the child than anything a computer programmer dreamed up. |
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Hapkido-In
Joined: 24 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:56 am Post subject: |
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Why do these posts all give off a feeling that it would be impossible for a kid to play video games for 4 hours, then play with lego for another 4, then go out and exercise for 4 more hours?
Kids can do lots of stuff.
Anyways, there may be better ways to develop certain areas than video games, but video games build on a far broader base of skills than those that out-specialize them.
For example, playing with Lego might help their creativeness, however, Lego isn't going to help much with their hand-eye co-ordination (at least not as much a video games will).
As for the damaging the eye thing, that's non-sense. I've played a lot...really a lot of video games and my eye sight is perfect. Aside from staring at the sun, most eye problems stem from genetics. Hey, look, mom and dad both wear glasses (as do all the aunts and uncles) but little Billy has glasses because he plays too many video games!
Play the video games! I started with an atari 2600 then went on to the NES. From there I branched out with a Turbo Graffix-16, a Sega Genesis, and a SNES. Then I skipped a few and went to a PSX, PS2, XBOX, and Gamecube. I'm...well, semi-normal, anyways.
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
No, I think your "restricted" time and mine are different.  I mean really, really restricted. It's not the computer itself, but the fact that they are learning from it and creating bad habits right away. Books should be used with children under 10 for as much as possible. I also don't agree that children should get into computers early. Someone who started learning computers at 12 years old at 20 years old will be the same as someone who started learning at 6 (and if there is any difference, it is negligible).
3D constructions software does not have the same effect as lego. Beyond the fact that children are tactile, the computer offers virtually any choice. With lego, you have to make do with what you have. There are many other factors, like learning to share or trade. Also, after building something, I then had it and played with it. I could play with it. I don't understand how you can compare it to 3D software (if that is what you are doing)?
Even with books, children move around while reading. Change positions, etc. You don't do that with computers (I am talking about now). Then there is eye and wrist health, as studies aren't finished on kids starting computers early. Though through the use of cell phones, finger arthritis has actually started becoming a bit of a problem.
I coudl go on and on why kids should be doing other things than sitting inside, in one position looking at a screen where anything is possible. On a computer you can do anything, imagination goes down the hole.
Finally, I didn't disagree computers a big part of life, I disagreed that the faster a child becomes comfortable with one, the better. I totally disagree with that (I already showed a couple reasons why up top).
Seriously, I could go on forever why other things are better than having a 6 year old at a computer. I am not technically saying computers are bad, but not as good as other things. Not going to though. I think many others agree with me. |
You seem to want to disagree (as if you are taking some great moral higher ground in all of this - You have no idea what my restrictions are, yet you can say that your are tighter?), and that's fine. You do sound a bit PTA-ish, but the choices are all yours. Yeah...many other people agreeing with you doesn't make anything right or wrong.
Do you have kids? If and when you do, we will have this discussion again. Everyone is Ultimate SuperParent when they have no children, but when it gets down to brass tacks, things change fast. No, having kids isn't a prerequisite for this discussion, but one's lofty perspective meets reality when you have a couple. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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There wasn't a single counter argument in there to any of my ideas Demophobe. Only attacking me as a person for much of your entire post, which has nothing to do with my argument. You can't win a debate like that. Also, why are you taking this so personally?
And how does having a kid negate anything I said about there being better activities than using a computer for child development???
Actually, I am not going to bother to respond to you again. I have made my points. I can leave it at that.
Last edited by laogaiguk on Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:15 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Hapkido-In wrote: |
Why do these posts all give off a feeling that it would be impossible for a kid to play video games for 4 hours, then play with lego for another 4, then go out and exercise for 4 more hours?
Kids can do lots of stuff.
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Lego is just an example Please don't focus on that... I am not suggesting people play with Lego 12 hours a day... 
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Anyways, there may be better ways to develop certain areas than video games, but video games build on a far broader base of skills than those that out-specialize them.
For example, playing with Lego might help their creativeness, however, Lego isn't going to help much with their hand-eye co-ordination (at least not as much a video games will).
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see above, then get your kids to play some sports
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As for the damaging the eye thing, that's non-sense. I've played a lot...really a lot of video games and my eye sight is perfect. Aside from staring at the sun, most eye problems stem from genetics. Hey, look, mom and dad both wear glasses (as do all the aunts and uncles) but little Billy has glasses because he plays too many video games!
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People use to run behind DDT trucks too. 20 year olds are now getting major finger problems due to cell phones. Kids eyes are still developing, and we have no idea what that means if they look at a screen for 4 hours a day. Studies are being done on young children now, so I can't refute you yet and maybe never can. I would still rather be safe.
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Play the video games! I started with an atari 2600 then went on to the NES. From there I branched out with a Turbo Graffix-16, a Sega Genesis, and a SNES. Then I skipped a few and went to a PSX, PS2, XBOX, and Gamecube. I'm...well, semi-normal, anyways.
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When did you start? Anyways, there is no way to check up on that so I won't bother I have no idea how active you are, etc etc. BUt in today's FAT North America, I just don't think video games are good for little children, they would create bad habits right off.
Edit, add more tonight. |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
Fine, I didn't explain myself enough. I think maximum one hour a week for children under 10 is ok. I didn't just assume, from what you wrote, it would take much more than an hour to do the things you were saying.
It's not that I want to disagree. I am not allowed to disagree with you? What kind of argument is that? And what is PTA-ish? ANd while you are right about people agreeing not always being right or wrong, it does tend to be right more than often.
This isn't an argument. I absolutely hate this superior thinking by parents. I have hit this exact same argument 3 times now on this board. IT is completely wrong, and someone without kids has a non-biased view of things. NOt that a parents view is any less valid. Would you say I also can't discuss Iraq's current situation because I am not there and only have access to the news?
There wasn't a single counter argument in there to any of my ideas. Only attacking me as a person for your entire post, which has nothing to do with my argument. You can't win a debate like that. Also, why are you taking this so personally?
And how does having a kid negate anything I said about there being better activities than using a computer for child development???
Actually, I am not going to bother to respond to you again. I have made my points. I can leave it at that. |
There is nothing in my post that 'attacks' you in any way personally. I looked at what you posted, that's it.
I have no superior attitude. I am only saying that I have heard your ideas a million times before, and I was one of the people who had them before kids came into my life. They have huge peer pressures that aren't easy to understand, and having a child feeling like an oddity at school for not knowing certain things about youth pop culture isn't easy for them to reckon with, no matter how thorough the explanations are from the parents.
I didn't present the "you don't have kids" as and argument, but an explanation as to why we seem as though we are on different sides of the fence. People soon find that parenting isn't a textbook exercise and a constant revision of ideas and plans is what makes it so hard. Kids themselves aren't the challenge, it's what they are exposed to and experience that is out of the parent's control that makes it hard. It's a constant battle between parents' values and everyone else around them. Be it teachers, friends, TV, video games, PC rooms...it all amonts to a formidable adversary.
What is PTA-ish? People with kids who don't seem to understand what it's like to be one. They close doors and put so many restrictions on children, they are actually doing them a disservice through their "protections". I said you sounded a bit PTA-ish in your views; I meant you just don't sound like you have dealt with a child on a day-to-day, 24-hour basis, which brings me back to the idea that you don't have kids, and respond accordingly.
As for wrist problems or other physical ailments that come from using a computer...well, I just can't take that seriously. It's too paranoid and it's only going to be true in somewhat extreme cases. I can't imagine how many hours it would take for a physical deformity to develop as a result of using a mouse. More that I would allow, so, it's a ghost. Actually, I have finger 'deformity' from playing drums since I was six, so I do understand how long it takes; more time than I would allow on a computer.
Someone without kids doesn't have a non-biased view. They have a one-sided view. Someone with kids who can recall their thoughts before they had kids, has the luxury of truly seeing both sides. As it stands, you simply have no idea what it's like to be a parent. That's all. It's not good or bad; it is what it is - a one-sided view.
Comparing the discussion of raising children to reading news about Iraq? We (anyone) can both discuss Iraq and be equally informed. In discussing raising children, we can't do that.
I don't want to attack you in any way. I don't want it to seem as though I want to get personal or have an argument with you. I don't know you at all - I have no grounds for a personal attack. You seem like a good guy from your posts, and it seems for all of our differences, we have many ideas in common. Your views are valid as anyones, but so is the fact that until you have children of your own, it's only a theoretical argument, not a practical one. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Look I am arguing against computers, and used correctly, they have benefits. One example is using video games to help ADHD children to learn how to focus more. But you have to be careful. Video games could also have children lose the ability to pay attention for long periods of time. Studies are still out on this.
The biggest problem is TV can be a great educator when used sparingly (sp?) and with supervision. Unfortunately, it has become society's babysitter. The same could (and probably already has) with computers. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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Well, that's better, I probably just overreacted. Getting too used to this board and being attacked I will respond, but I have to go. But for the record, my house is a foster house. My parents are divorced, so it is only my mother taking care of 5 or 6 kids. I used to help her all the time when I was in univerisity and when I stayed at her house. It's not exactly the same Demophobe, but it's close enough that I can understand what having kids is like as I was the father figure for them and had complete responsibility of them. Some have gone on to great lives (not as good as ours, but considering their past lives, very good). Some went home and I don't know what happened. Some, unfortunately, have 4 children and a druggie husband who beats them while they live with her mother (a prostitute) in a trailer.
EDIT
I guess I have two major beefs.
1) The computer opens up limitless worlds of opportunities to learn. I actually think this is a problem for small children. They no longer have to use their imagination as much because it is all there. A branch off of this is the spell checker. Children in highschool nowadays can't spell worth crap. And in China, where you type in the pinyin (Roman letters) and the character comes up, many students can't write their own language
2) Missing out on other things, like going to the library. The children actually have to get up and go find the information, get a library card, borrow and return books, interact with the librarians, etc. So even just researching something on the internet, while more convienent, is taking away a lot of valuable other skill practice from the children as opposed to going to the library. Now I guess I was a little too restrictive in my before opinions, and the computer can be helpful, but I am afraid parents will use the ocmputer exclusively.
The internet is great, but it does make us lazy. Same for software, 3D software has a lot of shortcuts and predefined things. Also, there are a few things you can't do, and therefore the children won't do that. If they just draw something on paper, it's not as cool, and you can't rotate it to look at everything, etc, but again that is where they are losing out on using their imagination. Not to mention you have to teach them the importance of the difference between opinion and fact a little more. |
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