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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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 Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Zulu wrote: |
Well you know, teach, I did just that. Then I Googled "Mithridates" + "respected newspaper authority on all things western" and came up with zilch. Perhaps I should have limited my search to Korean web pages.  |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok, what say we both step back and calm down a bit? This is getting silly especially as it seems we basically agree on the whole HOA thing. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Zulu wrote: |
| Ok, what say we both step back and calm down a bit? This is getting silly. |
Agreed.  I'm going out in ten minutes anyway. We can do some more misquoting and misunderstanding the other's position a bit later. |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| Zulu wrote: |
| Ok, what say we both step back and calm down a bit? This is getting silly. |
Agreed. I'm going out in ten minutes anyway. We can do some more misquoting and misunderstanding the other's position a bit later. |
OK man. Take care and keep cool. |
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JLarter
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Yawn. Same old tired line. Japan, England and Germany were pummelled into the ground in WW2, and they clawed themselves into even better position. This doesn't really matter, just that I don't here English, Germans or Japanese constantly using ithis line to show how great and unique they are. And besides, take away western and Japanese technology, education and aid - Korea still would be on par with Liberia. The oft-touted "miracle of the Han" was really not much more than the miracle of foreign willingness to help Korea during the cold war and up to today. |
And Germany DIDN't get millions of pounds of aid after the war?
Certain countries in Africa also get much more aid than Korea got and look at them. You have to have the ability and potential to use resources most effectively and this is clearly what they did. It's only because people have a grudge against Koreans on this board. |
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pastis
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| JLarter wrote: |
And Germany DIDN't get millions of pounds of aid after the war?
Certain countries in Africa also get much more aid than Korea got and look at them. You have to have the ability and potential to use resources most effectively and this is clearly what they did. It's only because people have a grudge against Koreans on this board. |
Western countries plus Japan industrialised themselves via capitalism long ago. Even though they were destroyed in WWII, rebuilding was not as big a deal as industrialising for the first time, without anyone's example to follow. In the case of, say, Germany, infrastructure after the war was heavily damaged, but never obliterated. They could have rebuilt the industrial sector themselves (they certainly had the experience and know-how) without American money, it just would have taken much longer and the Soviets were on the doorstep. Same situation in England, the rest of Europe, and Japan.
But in Korea's case, after their war, the whole country was literally built up from scratch by western aid and technology in the first place (albeit helped by Korea's own motivation and strong national work-ethic etc.). The same cannot be said about Japan, as they had proactively and skillfully started industrialising themselves as far back as the Meiji period (merely borrowing western techniques, but not depending on western capital). Japan simply did not depend on western aid in the same sense as Korea. |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| JLarter wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Yawn. Same old tired line. Japan, England and Germany were pummelled into the ground in WW2, and they clawed themselves into even better position. This doesn't really matter, just that I don't here English, Germans or Japanese constantly using ithis line to show how great and unique they are. And besides, take away western and Japanese technology, education and aid - Korea still would be on par with Liberia. The oft-touted "miracle of the Han" was really not much more than the miracle of foreign willingness to help Korea during the cold war and up to today. |
And Germany DIDN't get millions of pounds of aid after the war?
Certain countries in Africa also get much more aid than Korea got and look at them. You have to have the ability and potential to use resources most effectively and this is clearly what they did. It's only because people have a grudge against Koreans on this board. |
My point, if you'd read, was that unlike the Korean media the Germans, English, Japanese etc. don't tend to constantly, predictably, fall back on this old line.
Way oversimplified and not correct anyway. If you'd read some more you'd know that including military and other technological aid (tech transfer agreements, etc.) Korea has certainly recieved more aid than most African countries since the end of WW2. This has has greatly freed up more resources for the Korean government to invest in domestic production and hence economic growth. In addition, Korea has continued to benefit greatly from financial assistance from the west. Not that I'm any great fan, but after the chaebol-induced economic collapse in 1997-8 Korea recieved the biggest single IMF/World Bank 'restructuring loan' (about $ 54 billion USD) of any country on record, including any African country. Without access granted to western markets (unlike most African nations) Korea would likely still be paying this off decades from now.
To compare Korea with African nations is off the mark because unlike Korea, most of the continent was, and is viewed by the rest of the world as a breadbasket for raw materials to be exploited (just look at China's willingness to 'invest' no strings attached in some of the most horrendous of Africa's dictatorships). Korea was intentionally propped up by the west and Japan for factory-based production and then, to gain a foothold in a foothold for capitalism in east Asia during the cold war, etc.). The west also allows Korean products into their markets, certainly not a favor granted most African nations. Earlier in the 20th century many African nations also endured true western colonialsim (and for much longer) as well as imposition of artificial, divisive tribal-religious boundaries which continue to hamper development there to this day. Even now most African nations have nowhere near the fair trade terms Korea has been granted.
To insinuate that Africans have not progressed due to some inherent laziness or intellectual cap compared to Korea ignores a lot of basic history and smacks of the same old racism.
Continue to deny it if you will and pass this off as a "grudge against Korea", but without past and present Western/Japanese aid and favors, Korea would be no better off than many African nations today. If you actually still need proof, digest this simple fact:
Korea prior to western aid = Liberia.
ROK with sixty years of massive western aid, education, etc. = OECD.
Coincidence? Please. 
Last edited by Zulu on Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| pastis wrote: |
| JLarter wrote: |
And Germany DIDN't get millions of pounds of aid after the war?
Certain countries in Africa also get much more aid than Korea got and look at them. You have to have the ability and potential to use resources most effectively and this is clearly what they did. It's only because people have a grudge against Koreans on this board. |
Western countries plus Japan industrialised themselves via capitalism long ago. Even though they were destroyed in WWII, rebuilding was not as big a deal as industrialising for the first time, without anyone's example to follow. In the case of, say, Germany, infrastructure after the war was heavily damaged, but never obliterated. They could have rebuilt the industrial sector themselves (they certainly had the experience and know-how) without American money, it just would have taken much longer and the Soviets were on the doorstep. Same situation in England, the rest of Europe, and Japan.
But in Korea's case, after their war, the whole country was literally built up from scratch by western aid and technology in the first place (albeit helped by Korea's own motivation and strong national work-ethic etc.). The same cannot be said about Japan, as they had proactively and skillfully started industrialising themselves as far back as the Meiji period (merely borrowing western techniques, but not depending on western capital). Japan simply did not depend on western aid in the same sense as Korea. |
These are excellent points and something to consider when the Korean media starts spouting it's junk about "Germany, America, England etc. took 300 years to industrialze and prosper, but superior Koreans did it in only 50!"
Yeah, because Korea's 'Miracle of the Han' was totally built on three hundred years of western (and 100 years of Japanese) innovation, education and technological development. For the most part, the West handed them their 'miracle' pre-packaged and ready to eat. There's no shame in admitting this - I just wish they'd give credit where it's due for a change. That'd be refreshing. |
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indiercj
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| You guys are beating a dead horse here(as always ). For the moment, Koreans don't give a damn who they should thank for what. We are just trying to wokt it out as planned to compete for the "Hub of Northeast Asia". And my friends, unless you are in position to invest tens of millions of $ in Asia or an active business player from this region, you are clearly out of the picture. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| indiercj wrote: |
| You guys are beating a dead horse here(as always ). For the moment, Koreans don't give a damn who they should thank for what. We are just trying to wokt it out as planned to compete for the "Hub of Northeast Asia". And my friends, unless you are in position to invest tens of millions of $ in Asia or an active business player from this region, you are clearly out of the picture. |
You are right about needing big money.
State-run firms face big fines for cooking books
August 11, 2006 ㅡ Two state-run companies, Korea National Housing Corp. and Korea Land Corp., have been levied a combined total of nearly 100 billion won ($104 million) in penalty taxes for false accounting and illegitimate financial support for their affiliates.
According to data submitted by the two companies to Grand National Party lawmaker Yoon Doo-hwan, the National Tax Service levied penalties of 89.9 billion won on Korea National Housing and another 7.4 billion won on Korea Land.
The former figure was reached after a five-month audit by the tax agency. The auditing process on Korea Land, initially scheduled to conclude in July, will instead wrap up in October.
For Korea National Housing, the wrongdoing involved miscalculating its corporate taxes on property transfer.
Under the law, the state-run company must pay corporate and special value-added taxes upon receiving deposits from residents of its housing units, and thus transfer the right to use the building. The taxation applies even if construction on those homes isn't complete. In this case, the company did not pay the taxes on the grounds that construction was still under way.
In addition, a Korea National Housing affiliate, Hanyang Corp., received a favorable, more lucrative construction contract than industry rivals. The report found another 4.2 billion won's worth of illegal financial aid for the company's affiliates.
For Korea Land, the penalty was imposed because the company failed to include a railway construction project in its financial report.
"The state-run companies should be exemplary for others," Mr. Yoon said.
The two state-run corporations have paid penalty taxes in the past. Five years ago, Korea Housing National was charged 48.4 billion won for similar violations. In 2000, Korea Land had to pay 6.4 billion won for false accounting.
"That they are repeat offenders proves recklessness in their management," Mr. Yoon said.
Cho Seung-myeon, senior financial executive at Korea National Housing, said the company "had no intention" to evade taxes.
Kim Won-joo, head of the financial and accounting team at Korea Land, said the company has asked the National Tax Tribunal to review the case.
by Kim Jun-hyun, Kang Kap-saeng <[email protected]>
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200608/10/200608102118351079900090509052.html |
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numazawa
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: The Concrete Barnyard
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:19 am Post subject: |
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Okay, here's the straight poop on this. Today I went to the local Walmart only to find that the bakery section was completely out of their multi-grain baguettes. Not a one. Nada. Zilch.
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"Hub of Asia" my ass! |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| Excellent posts Zulu. There is a lot of truth in what you say. Well said. |
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indiercj
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
| indiercj wrote: |
| You guys are beating a dead horse here(as always ). For the moment, Koreans don't give a damn who they should thank for what. We are just trying to wokt it out as planned to compete for the "Hub of Northeast Asia". And my friends, unless you are in position to invest tens of millions of $ in Asia or an active business player from this region, you are clearly out of the picture. |
You are right about needing big money.
State-run firms face big fines for cooking books
August 11, 2006 ㅡ Two state-run companies, Korea National Housing Corp. and Korea Land Corp., have been levied a combined total of nearly 100 billion won ($104 million) in penalty taxes for false accounting and illegitimate financial support for their affiliates.
According to data submitted by the two companies to Grand National Party lawmaker Yoon Doo-hwan, the National Tax Service levied penalties of 89.9 billion won on Korea National Housing and another 7.4 billion won on Korea Land.
The former figure was reached after a five-month audit by the tax agency. The auditing process on Korea Land, initially scheduled to conclude in July, will instead wrap up in October.
For Korea National Housing, the wrongdoing involved miscalculating its corporate taxes on property transfer.
Under the law, the state-run company must pay corporate and special value-added taxes upon receiving deposits from residents of its housing units, and thus transfer the right to use the building. The taxation applies even if construction on those homes isn't complete. In this case, the company did not pay the taxes on the grounds that construction was still under way.
In addition, a Korea National Housing affiliate, Hanyang Corp., received a favorable, more lucrative construction contract than industry rivals. The report found another 4.2 billion won's worth of illegal financial aid for the company's affiliates.
For Korea Land, the penalty was imposed because the company failed to include a railway construction project in its financial report.
"The state-run companies should be exemplary for others," Mr. Yoon said.
The two state-run corporations have paid penalty taxes in the past. Five years ago, Korea Housing National was charged 48.4 billion won for similar violations. In 2000, Korea Land had to pay 6.4 billion won for false accounting.
"That they are repeat offenders proves recklessness in their management," Mr. Yoon said.
Cho Seung-myeon, senior financial executive at Korea National Housing, said the company "had no intention" to evade taxes.
Kim Won-joo, head of the financial and accounting team at Korea Land, said the company has asked the National Tax Tribunal to review the case.
by Kim Jun-hyun, Kang Kap-saeng <[email protected]>
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200608/10/200608102118351079900090509052.html |
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numazawa
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: The Concrete Barnyard
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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What, here it is late afternoon on a gloriously sodden Sunday and there's not a single post on THE thread touting Korea as the Hub of Asia???
"Hub of Asia" my ass!  |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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S. Korea aims to become Northeast Asian 'oil hub': policymaker
By Lee Joon-seung, Yonhap News (August 4, 2008)
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/business/2008/08/04/0502000000AEN20080804001800320.HTML
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S. Korea plans to create new business opportunities and better insulate itself from fluctuating crude prices by striving to become a Northeast Asian "oil hub", a senior government policymaker said Monday.
The transformation of the country into an oil hub requires the development of extensive petroleum refining, shipment, storage and trading capabilities that will mirror operations taking place in Singapore, Vice Knowledge Economy Minister Lee Jae-joon said. |
 Korea = oil hub? |
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