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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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 Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| If the US had maintained its principles instead of becoming an interventionist socialist state there would be no Al Qaida. |
that is based on what?
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The US must once again become a nation that respects the individual liberty of every person in the world. The US must be a beacon of hope. America's light of liberty can guide the way for the world. This will prevent the creation of FUTURE terrorists. |
that is based on what?
Regimes and the elites teach hate and incite violence because it it forms a useful politcal objective. and because too many of the regimes and elties actually believe in such sinsister ideologies.
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| The terrorists that the US has already created will never stop. They must be caught or killed. This has to be done without violating the principles of liberty. This is the difficult challenge and the legacy the interventionists have left behind. |
What are you talking about. The US did not create the terrorists.
And the US was right to fight the cold war because the USSR was out to get the US.
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| It is much more important to stop creating future terrorists than to catch the current ones who will eventually die anyway. |
There would be less terrorists if mideast regimes and elties didn't teach hate an incite violence . that is the main cause of the terror.
Bin Laden and his group fight for a Caliphate if the US doesn't go along with his demands then he will attack.
What does going along with Bin Ladens demands don't have relations whatsoever with anyone he doens't like.
And of course he blames the US for lots of stuff that the US has nothing to do so he will attack anyway.
Of course were Bin Laden ever to get his Caliphate then Al Qaeda would attack anyway because they would want to take it futher.
You say the US created Al Qaeda well how so?
Lets put it to the test. Right here and right now.
What does Al Qaeda want they want the Caliphate
That would include not only the mideast but Africa and South Asia and South East Asia and even Spain and Timor.
He blames the US for supporting corrupt mideast rulers. How does the US do that? They trade with Saudi Arabia?and give 2 Billion to Egypt Not only that the US doesn't have good relations with half of the corrupt dictators in the mideast.
He blames the US for supporting Russia in Checnya - does the US do so?
He blames the US for supporting Chinas oppression of Chinese muslims. Does the US do so?
He blames the US for low oil prices. This is cause of the US?
What are you going to do when he calls alternative energy an act of war?
He blames the US for the Cartoons and says the authors must be brought to him for punishment. The US did not write them and the cartoons in fact have nothing to do with the US.
He blames the US for supporting India against Pakistan in the Kashmir. Is that the case?
Get your facts straight.
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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brento1138
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
If the US had maintained its principles instead of becoming an interventionist socialist state there would be no Al Qaida.
The US must once again become a nation that respects the individual liberty of every person in the world. The US must be a beacon of hope. America's light of liberty can guide the way for the world. This will prevent the creation of FUTURE terrorists.
The terrorists that the US has already created will never stop. They must be caught or killed. This has to be done without violating the principles of liberty. This is the difficult challenge and the legacy the interventionists have left behind.
It is much more important to stop creating future terrorists than to catch the current ones who will eventually die anyway. |
I agree with you, the US and Canada (and other countries) who have recently been targeted by terrorists can't simply sit down, turn the other direction. I think that the US should respect the liberty of ALMOST every person in the world... people who want to kill innocents (including terrorists & American soldiers, anyone who breaks the rules of law) should NOT be given any liberty. I am all about our society integrating liberty and "careful police monitoring" and "spying" on those who will cause us harm.
In Canada, for instance... the police can shut down hate sites. But they choose not to. I think the spy agencies in Canada were smart, instead of just shutting down these hate sites, they watched them, learned from them, spied on the terrorists. Then they caught them. Bravo! This is the way we're going to stop terrorists... |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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'You have to be subdued'
He said his hatred for the United States was rooted in American support for Israel, its treatment of Muslim nations and his interpretation of the Quran that Muslims must fight against those who don't share their beliefs.
"We have to be the superpower, we have to be above you, and you have to be subdued," Moussaoui said. "You organize the misery of the world." |
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/04/13/moussaoui.trial/index.html
An Al Qaeda member in his own words. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
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Dogbert please give me your take on this.
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| While the charges that the CIA was responsible for the rise of the Afghan Arabs might make good copy, they don't make good history. The truth is more complicated, tinged with varying shades of gray. The United States wanted to be able to deny that the CIA was funding the Afghan war, so its support was funneled through Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence agency (ISI). ISI in turn made the decisions about which Afghan factions to arm and train, tending to favor the most Islamist and pro-Pakistan. The Afghan Arabs generally fought alongside those factions, which is how the charge arose that they were creatures of the CIA. Former CIA official Milt Bearden, who ran the Agency's Afghan operation in the late 1980s, says, "The CIA did not recruit Arabs," as there was no need to do so. There were hundreds of thousands of Afghans all too willing to fight, and the Arabs who did come for jihad were "very disruptive . . . the Afghans thought they were a pain in the ass." Similar sentiments from Afghans who appreciated the money that flowed from the Gulf but did not appreciate the Arabs' holier-than-thou attempts to convert them to their ultra-purist version of Islam. ... There was simply no point in the CIA and the Afghan Arabs being in contact with each other. ... the Afghan Arabs functioned independently and had their own sources of funding. The CIA did not need the Afghan Arabs, and the Afghan Arabs did not need the CIA. So the notion that the Agency funded and trained the Afghan Arabs is, at best, misleading. The 'let's blame everything bad that happens on the CIA' school of thought vastly overestimates the Agency's powers, both for good and ill." [Holy War, Inc.: Inside the Secret World of Osama bin Laden (New York: The Free Press, 2001), pp. 64-66.] |
and by the way do you dont' think that Al Qaeda fights for the Caliphate? |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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I have no reason to doubt Bearden's account.
I don't doubt that one of the goals of some of the top Al Qaeda leaders is establishment of the "Caliphate". |
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Sooke
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Location: korea
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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Q: Why does Al Qaeda fight?
A: Because they hate freedom. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Sooke wrote: |
Q: Why does Al Qaeda fight?
A: Because they hate freedom. |
that was a stupid answer by Bush .
However the anti war movement answer that they are just a defensive movement fighting against US policies is just as stupid.
Actually Al Qaeda attacks the US so they can throw the US out of the mideast so they can conquer it themselves, but their goals go far beyond the mideast. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| That why "they" hate us. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
If the US had maintained its principles instead of becoming an interventionist socialist state there would be no Al Qaida.
The US must once again become a nation that respects the individual liberty of every person in the world. The US must be a beacon of hope. America's light of liberty can guide the way for the world. This will prevent the creation of FUTURE terrorists.
The terrorists that the US has already created will never stop. They must be caught or killed. This has to be done without violating the principles of liberty. This is the difficult challenge and the legacy the interventionists have left behind.
It is much more important to stop creating future terrorists than to catch the current ones who will eventually die anyway. |
That's not true. Al Qaeda is attempting to create a revolution in the Arab world and if it were not the US as a foe it would have been someone else outside of the world.
The US has created some terrorists in some places but radical Islam is responsible for the impetus and the methods that terrorists employ.
Your view is a well-known one on the Left that has been discredited by recent Shi'a attacks in both Iraq and Lebanon. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:03 am Post subject: |
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ontheway wrote:
If the US had maintained its principles instead of becoming an interventionist socialist state there would be no Al Qaida.
The US must once again become a nation that respects the individual liberty of every person in the world. The US must be a beacon of hope. America's light of liberty can guide the way for the world. This will prevent the creation of FUTURE terrorists.
The terrorists that the US has already created will never stop. They must be caught or killed. This has to be done without violating the principles of liberty. This is the difficult challenge and the legacy the interventionists have left behind.
It is much more important to stop creating future terrorists than to catch the current ones who will eventually die anyway.
That's not true. Al Qaeda is attempting to create a revolution in the Arab world and if it were not the US as a foe it would have been someone else outside of the world. |
The US has created some terrorists in some places but radical Islam is responsible for the impetus and the methods that terrorists employ.
Your view is a well-known one on the Left that has been discredited by recent Shi'a attacks in both Iraq and Lebanon. |
The U.S.did not create Al Qaeda. But it is beyond a doubt that they added to the fire and continue to do so. They have the wrong approach and the approach of confront, contort, yell "freedom" while denying freedom , only adds to the polarization of views and helps their agenda .........(what agenda you may add? The same agenda the whelps in power have had since Caligula or maybe Nero or probably back to Agememnon.....power, status, profit and ego...).
Radical Islam is like radical democracy....(yeah laugh but the laugh is on you...). It needs adherents ready to fight all over the place, kill innocents and scream righteousness. As I have always done, I call a spade a spade and those in turban , suit, hijab, shawl, robes , shoeless, jeans, cap, gertel, belly ring, side locks, sirwal, kippa, rosary, phylactery, sword or cross.............if evil ARE evil.....
Lets be honest. People come in many guises....no faith, no people, no nation is evil unto itself. The evil , if there is any , is more created in our failure to see humanity and coat all with a "they are".......Let's clean our own house...and then we may have a moment to call upon others, a moment to beckon others to be better...
End of quick typing rant.
DD |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:30 am Post subject: |
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A controversy brewing in Saudi Arabia is instructive. Several weeks ago, when the U.S. was gearing up for the assault on Fallujah, Salman al-Awdah, a popular preacher who had close ties to al Qaeda in the '90s, signed, along with 25 colleagues, a declaration that made fighting the U.S. in Iraq an obligation for able-bodied Muslims. This sly document left it an open question as to whether Iraqis and Saudis were equally obliged to fight. The authors of the declaration wanted to have it both ways--to garner the benefits of association with al Qaeda abroad without suffering any consequences at home.
But many Saudis have grown tired of this game, and are working to expose clerics for playing fast and loose with peoples' lives. The reformist newspaper al-Watan revealed that Mr. al-Awdah subsequently enlisted the aid of the Saudi security services in order to prevent his son Muadh from joining the jihad in Iraq. Muadh, it seems, had decided with some friends to go and fight America. "God permitting," he said in a message to his family, "we have an appointment with paradise." In an effort to prevent him from keeping this date, Mr. al-Awdah contacted Prince Muhammad bin Nayef, No. 2 at the Saudi ministry of Interior. The authorities quickly found the young men, and returned them safely to their families.
Mr. Al-Awdah's frantic call for help revealed two levels of hypocrisy. First, it shattered his carefully crafted image as a courageous fighter for Islam, a man who speaks truth to power. For someone supposedly independent of the regime, he has cozy ties with the Saudi secret police. Second, it unmasked his true feeling about the anti-American jihad: Let Iraqis kill themselves.
Mr. al-Awdah is today less concerned about fueling the jihad than he is about saving his reputation. He is quibbling over the details of al-Watan's report, claiming defamation and threatening a lawsuit. Al-Watan has responded by saying, in effect: Bring it on. If he dares to do so, Mr. al-Awdah may well find himself with more legal burdens than he cares to shoulder. The father of a Saudi boy who did in fact find his death in Iraq has gone to the media expressing his intention to sue Mr. al-Awdah and the other 25 clerics who issued the fatwa supporting the jihad. And to make matters worse, the government of Kuwait--a predominantly Sunni country--has banned the offending clerics from its soil. |
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110006014 |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/sf/nyt8_13_06_6.htm
August 13, 2006
Links
Terrorism Experts Cast Doubt on Qaeda Tie to London Arrests
By SCOTT SHANE
WASHINGTON, Aug. 12 � When American and Pakistani officials said this week that one conspirator in the foiled plan to bomb trans-Atlantic airliners was a �liaison� to Al Qaeda, they suggested that his arrest proved the group was linked to the scheme. Rashid Rauf, a Briton, had trained in the group�s camps in the 1990�s and was �a key Al Qaeda operative,� one Pakistani official said.
But counterterrorism experts said Saturday that the focus of government officials and the public on Al Qaeda, a term today with deep connotations but elusive meaning, may be misplaced.
They say the Qaeda label remains useful shorthand for the news media and for officials who want to tap the powerful emotions associated with the Sept. 11 attacks. But to suggest that the terrorist threat today is represented by the organization directly commanded by Osama bin Laden is to oversimplify a complex international movement, the specialists say.
�If you think of Al Qaeda as the group that did 9/11, I don�t think it�s a very useful question,� said Marc S. Sageman, a former Central Intelligence Agency officer and author of a 2004 book closely studied in intelligence agencies, �Understanding Terror Networks.�
�There is no such thing as Al Qaeda as it existed before we went to Afghanistan and destroyed it,� Mr. Sageman said.
As the latest plot suggests, he said, that does not mean total victory is at hand. �We won the war against the old Al Qaeda. But we�re not winning against the global social movement that Al Qaeda was part of, because more and more kids are joining the movement,� he said.
Michael Scheuer, a former head of the C.I.A. unit that focuses on Mr. bin Laden, says there may be more left of the old Al Qaeda than Mr. Sageman thinks. But he, too, doubts that Mr. bin Laden had anything to do with the airliner plot and emphasizes Al Qaeda�s role as the inspiration and support for a broader movement. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
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ontheway wrote:
If the US had maintained its principles instead of becoming an interventionist socialist state there would be no Al Qaida.
The US must once again become a nation that respects the individual liberty of every person in the world. The US must be a beacon of hope. America's light of liberty can guide the way for the world. This will prevent the creation of FUTURE terrorists.
The terrorists that the US has already created will never stop. They must be caught or killed. This has to be done without violating the principles of liberty. This is the difficult challenge and the legacy the interventionists have left behind.
It is much more important to stop creating future terrorists than to catch the current ones who will eventually die anyway.
That's not true. Al Qaeda is attempting to create a revolution in the Arab world and if it were not the US as a foe it would have been someone else outside of the world. |
The US has created some terrorists in some places but radical Islam is responsible for the impetus and the methods that terrorists employ.
Your view is a well-known one on the Left that has been discredited by recent Shi'a attacks in both Iraq and Lebanon. |
The U.S.did not create Al Qaeda. But it is beyond a doubt that they added to the fire and continue to do so. They have the wrong approach and the approach of confront, contort, yell "freedom" while denying freedom , only adds to the polarization of views and helps their agenda .........(what agenda you may add? The same agenda the whelps in power have had since Caligula or maybe Nero or probably back to Agememnon.....power, status, profit and ego...).
Radical Islam is like radical democracy....(yeah laugh but the laugh is on you...). It needs adherents ready to fight all over the place, kill innocents and scream righteousness. As I have always done, I call a spade a spade and those in turban , suit, hijab, shawl, robes , shoeless, jeans, cap, gertel, belly ring, side locks, sirwal, kippa, rosary, phylactery, sword or cross.............if evil ARE evil.....
Lets be honest. People come in many guises....no faith, no people, no nation is evil unto itself. The evil , if there is any , is more created in our failure to see humanity and coat all with a "they are".......Let's clean our own house...and then we may have a moment to call upon others, a moment to beckon others to be better...
End of quick typing rant.
DD |
Meh, you sympathize will Al Qaeda's slavish ideals, not realizing that they hope to become lord and master themselves. Luckily, they look unable to convert from shadowy insurgent to Caliphate king-maker, and unluckily it seems the Shi'a via Iran and its proxies will take their place as the defender of the faith.
Why do you respond to my posts anyway? Haven't you denounced me as a warmonger? |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| If the US had maintained its principles instead of becoming an interventionist socialist state there would be no Al Qaida. |
WTF? The US is a socialist state? |
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