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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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 Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:54 am Post subject: Seymour Hersh on the timing and connections of IDF campaign |
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http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060821fa_fact
This article confirms a lot of suspicions. It's intersting that, far from being a demo of what the US could do to Iran, Israel's latest actions could prove more of a warning of how difficult it may be for the US to do anything in Iran than anything else. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| President Bush and Vice-President Dick Cheney were convinced, current and former intelligence and diplomatic officials told me, that a successful Israeli Air Force bombing campaign against Hezbollah�s heavily fortified underground-missile and command-and-control complexes in Lebanon could ease Israel�s security concerns and also serve as a prelude to a potential American pre�mptive attack to destroy Iran�s nuclear installations, some of which are also buried deep underground. |
Certainly explains why Israel deviated from past doctrine and relied so heavily on airstrikes.
But talk about crazy- how did they manage to talk the IDF into this when clearly the "shock and awe" airpower tactics have not been proven successful in the past? In fact, there's a pretty good case for arguing that such tactics have been failures.
Anyway, I haven't finished reading the article but that sentence leaped off the page... |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Seymour Hersh on the timing and connections of IDF campa |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060821fa_fact
This article confirms a lot of suspicions. It's intersting that, far from being a demo of what the US could do to Iran, Israel's latest actions could prove more of a warning of how difficult it may be for the US to do anything in Iran than anything else. |
Only if the US intends to invade Iran.
IF the US want' to bomb Iran's nuclear facilites. Well then that is a different situation all together.
The US Airforce and Navy are in fine condition
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
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| President Bush and Vice-President *beep* Cheney were convinced, current and former intelligence and diplomatic officials told me, that a successful Israeli Air Force bombing campaign against Hezbollah�s heavily fortified underground-missile and command-and-control complexes in Lebanon could ease Israel�s security concerns and also serve as a prelude to a potential American pre�mptive attack to destroy Iran�s nuclear installations, some of which are also buried deep underground. |
Certainly explains why Israel deviated from past doctrine and relied so heavily on airstrikes.
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That and the fact that for the first time in its history, the head of the military (blocking on his official title) is from Israel's air force. |
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flip ant
Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Location: He's got high hopes!
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:25 am Post subject: |
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Give me an O
Give me a V
Give me an E
Give me a R
Give me another R
Give me an A
Give me a T
Give me an E
Give me a D
What's that spell?
Seymour Hersh!! |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:27 am Post subject: |
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CNN & New Yorker
Bush Planned Lebanon War Months Before
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5eBrfrWoTk
"Fortunate timing" ... PRETEXT ... con-tingency plans ... duh ... |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Thx,
As I have said over and over, the Israeli attack was on "pretext".......
I especially appreciate how he
1) stated abruptly that the New Yorker spoke to his sources and that they are beyond credible...
2) how he stresses how Bush will find anything positive out of the Israeli actions , because they believe in this "idee fixee" of attacking Iran, very much like the case of Iraq in the year(s) leading up to the war. We should all be concerned about how secretive, fixated this administration is and how it conducts foreign policy with such "tunnel vision" and an attack mentality....
I'm saddened that as always, the ordinary men and women of both sides, of everywhere , got to bear the brunt of these lies, the propaganda of both sides....we are all in some ways, just guinea pigs for these rulers............
DD |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:01 am Post subject: |
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If Hizzbollah is an organziation is not dedicated to destroying Israel then Israel ' actions are probably not justified.
IF Hizzbollah is an organization dedicated to destroying Israel then Israel's actions are understandable and even justified.
As for Iran well if they gave up their war then there would be no war. |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject: War is now assured. |
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By the international community not allowing Israel to finish Hizbollah, they have almost assured war at some point with Iran.
This ceease fire , which Hizbollah now touts as a victory, has set the group up on the international stage now gaining fame and notoriety among the terror groups in as so much as even Al Qaeda.
This will greatly increase Hizbollah's power, as well as the determination of Iran and Syria to back them up.
This new status of Hizbollah places upon them certain expectations. Expectations that the Arab and terror communities have on such a elevated group, which will result in Hizbollah launching major attacks again at some point, which Israel will begin to lose her patience and will likely seek to go to the source of the problem, Iran. Hizbollah's leader, Nasrallah, lives in Tehran. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
| Quote: |
| President Bush and Vice-President *beep* Cheney were convinced, current and former intelligence and diplomatic officials told me, that a successful Israeli Air Force bombing campaign against Hezbollah�s heavily fortified underground-missile and command-and-control complexes in Lebanon could ease Israel�s security concerns and also serve as a prelude to a potential American pre�mptive attack to destroy Iran�s nuclear installations, some of which are also buried deep underground. |
Certainly explains why Israel deviated from past doctrine and relied so heavily on airstrikes.
But talk about crazy- how did they manage to talk the IDF into this when clearly the "shock and awe" airpower tactics have not been proven successful in the past? In fact, there's a pretty good case for arguing that such tactics have been failures.
... |
There is also a pretty good case for arguing that "shock and awe" airpower is not a failure. It worked well in Afghanistan...the suceeding failures have been due to poor follow-up and focus on Iraq. Worked very well in Japan and Nazi Germany. Worked well against the Serbs. I'd say like any military tactic it depends on a number of variables including duration, intensity, type of bombs, number of aircraft, world opinion, media onlookers.... |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:31 pm Post subject: Re: War is now assured. |
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| NAVFC wrote: |
By the international community not allowing Israel to finish Hizbollah, they have almost assured war at some point with Iran.
This ceease fire , which Hizbollah now touts as a victory, has set the group up on the international stage now gaining fame and notoriety among the terror groups in as so much as even Al Qaeda.
This will greatly increase Hizbollah's power, as well as the determination of Iran and Syria to back them up.
This new status of Hizbollah places upon them certain expectations. Expectations that the Arab and terror communities have on such a elevated group, which will result in Hizbollah launching major attacks again at some point, which Israel will begin to lose her patience and will likely seek to go to the source of the problem, Iran. Hizbollah's leader, Nasrallah, lives in Tehran. |
The international community (minus the US with its billions in aid) has very little potential influence on policy in Israel, especially this recent escapade. I also highly doubt that Israel's war with Hizbollah in Lebanon is over, though the turn of events seems a bit bizzare. As for Iran, I doubt they could be more secure and smug at this point. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Bulsajo wrote: |
| Quote: |
| President Bush and Vice-President *beep* Cheney were convinced, current and former intelligence and diplomatic officials told me, that a successful Israeli Air Force bombing campaign against Hezbollah�s heavily fortified underground-missile and command-and-control complexes in Lebanon could ease Israel�s security concerns and also serve as a prelude to a potential American pre�mptive attack to destroy Iran�s nuclear installations, some of which are also buried deep underground. |
Certainly explains why Israel deviated from past doctrine and relied so heavily on airstrikes.
But talk about crazy- how did they manage to talk the IDF into this when clearly the "shock and awe" airpower tactics have not been proven successful in the past? In fact, there's a pretty good case for arguing that such tactics have been failures.
... |
There is also a pretty good case for arguing that "shock and awe" airpower is not a failure. It worked well in Afghanistan...the suceeding failures have been due to poor follow-up and focus on Iraq. Worked very well in Japan and Nazi Germany. Worked well against the Serbs. I'd say like any military tactic it depends on a number of variables including duration, intensity, type of bombs, number of aircraft, world opinion, media onlookers.... |
The reason air power worked against the Serbs was that Wesley Clark was threatening to use ground forces if they did not surrender. The Serbs caved because they couldn't face a bombing followed by a subsequent invasion, and because a way out was offered that they were willing to accept. There were still diplomatic possibilities.
In Hezbollah's case, would Nasrullah be willing to spare his people to give up his ambitions? Would Israel even be willing to allow a marginally intact Hezbollah to exist?
The differences between Hezbollah and Nazi Germany should be clear enough as well, as the former is an unconventional asymmetrically designed guerilla-terror army supplied by state-powers, whereas the other was a hegemon-wannabe with a sprawling and accessible military-industrial complex with which to be bombed.
I guess I agree with Seymour Hersh and other critics of the administration, how can we look at the conflict with Hezbollah and state that air power fulfilled the objectives in Lebanon? Particularly if it is a kind of dry run for an air strike on Iran. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Bulsajo wrote: |
| Quote: |
| President Bush and Vice-President *beep* Cheney were convinced, current and former intelligence and diplomatic officials told me, that a successful Israeli Air Force bombing campaign against Hezbollah�s heavily fortified underground-missile and command-and-control complexes in Lebanon could ease Israel�s security concerns and also serve as a prelude to a potential American pre�mptive attack to destroy Iran�s nuclear installations, some of which are also buried deep underground. |
Certainly explains why Israel deviated from past doctrine and relied so heavily on airstrikes.
But talk about crazy- how did they manage to talk the IDF into this when clearly the "shock and awe" airpower tactics have not been proven successful in the past? In fact, there's a pretty good case for arguing that such tactics have been failures.
... |
There is also a pretty good case for arguing that "shock and awe" airpower is not a failure. It worked well in Afghanistan...the suceeding failures have been due to poor follow-up and focus on Iraq. Worked very well in Japan and Nazi Germany. Worked well against the Serbs. I'd say like any military tactic it depends on a number of variables including duration, intensity, type of bombs, number of aircraft, world opinion, media onlookers.... |
It didn't work at all in Germany and if it worked so well in Afghanistan, why have 16 Canadians died there in the past six months? It certainly hasn't worked at all for Israel in Lebanon, where Israel has proven excellent at destroying civilian targets but ineffective at stopping rocket attacks. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:03 am Post subject: |
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I wonder what the result would have been if Israel had been allowed more time?
I am sure that Israel isn't happy about the cease- fire. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Bulsajo wrote: |
| Quote: |
| President Bush and Vice-President *beep* Cheney were convinced, current and former intelligence and diplomatic officials told me, that a successful Israeli Air Force bombing campaign against Hezbollah�s heavily fortified underground-missile and command-and-control complexes in Lebanon could ease Israel�s security concerns and also serve as a prelude to a potential American pre�mptive attack to destroy Iran�s nuclear installations, some of which are also buried deep underground. |
Certainly explains why Israel deviated from past doctrine and relied so heavily on airstrikes.
But talk about crazy- how did they manage to talk the IDF into this when clearly the "shock and awe" airpower tactics have not been proven successful in the past? In fact, there's a pretty good case for arguing that such tactics have been failures.
... |
There is also a pretty good case for arguing that "shock and awe" airpower is not a failure. It worked well in Afghanistan...the suceeding failures have been due to poor follow-up and focus on Iraq. Worked very well in Japan and Nazi Germany. Worked well against the Serbs. I'd say like any military tactic it depends on a number of variables including duration, intensity, type of bombs, number of aircraft, world opinion, media onlookers.... |
It didn't work at all in Germany |
So VE Day was an illusion? The NAZIs are still in power? Wow, I have a really bad case of denial apparently. |
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