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sharhim
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:37 am Post subject: relieved? |
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| So strange to hear some say they're relieved that Kotesol doesn't make a practice of prayer, and being offended at the name of Jesus. He's the One who gave us life and who offers eternal life. If it's just a random comment, I can understand the ignorance; but if anyone cares enough to logically compare all worldviews and their answers on origin, meaning, morality and dignity, statements like that above are purely irrational. Well, I hope someone out there cares enough to do a little research. |
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jinks
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Location: Formerly: Lower North Island
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:12 am Post subject: Re: relieved? |
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| sharhim wrote: |
| So strange to hear some say they're relieved that Kotesol doesn't make a practice of prayer, and being offended at the name of Jesus. He's the One who gave us life and who offers eternal life. If it's just a random comment, I can understand the ignorance; but if anyone cares enough to logically compare all worldviews and their answers on origin, meaning, morality and dignity, statements like that above are purely irrational. Well, I hope someone out there cares enough to do a little research. |
Sorry, but you are the irrational one. Just because it is in the Bible doesn't mean it's true. Jesus did not give me life, my mum and dad did. If I want to live a better life, I can follow Jesus' teachings and practise unconditional love and non-judgemental forgiveness, or equally (if it is logic you want) I could follow the teachings of Siddharta Gautama (the Buddha) and free myself from the unhappiness that accompanies attachment.
I don't buy your assertion that Pauline Christianity (I know you didn't mention Paul, but I am putting 2 and 2 together) is a more valid (origin, meaning, morality and dignity) world view than any other in the history and breadth of our planet. This is offensive, not only to atheists and agnostics, but also to Jews, Moslems, Hindus and liberal Christians. You are entitled to your faith in Jesus as your personal saviour, but don't for one minute suggest that anyone who does not fully accept church teachings - as you understand them - will not enjoy an eternity of bliss. how the heck do you know? (please, don't tell me: "It's in the Bible" - the canonical gospels are a selected group of diverse writings, thoroughly edited to preach a common theme).
Anyway, back to KOTESOL. Were you there? The prayers were tedious in the extreme, long-winded and uninspiring. Jesus is not my boyfriend, or my buddy, he wasn't an invited speaker and the woman leading the prayer was not communing with the deity, she was waffling. It would have sufficed to say something like "may God bless our endeavours" - being a Christian university and all - but she couldn't just leave it at that, she had to bang on and on as if Jesus was some kind of KOTESOL sub-committee member who would like us to have a good time. It was unnecessary, in my opinion. Call me a deist, if you will, but I don't think that the deity really cares about the minutiae of daily human life. If we want to commune with the Eternal, then we can try to, but don't expect the Everlasting Energy that is God to come down and direct us all to the tea and coffee station on the first floor. It ain't going to happen, not even if St Paul (converts, huh? they are always the weird ones) himself beseeches it .
So, Sharim, please re-think your notion of non-Bible-believers, non-Christians and possibly non-born agains as 'ignorant'. We are not. There is nothing offensive about the name of Jesus, though some Christians bandy His name with such monotonous familiarity - in an attempt to justify their own, human, agendas - that it does cause offense, to me at least. I just don't think a KOTESOL conference is a very good place to proselytize and testify. End of story (Amen). |
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OiGirl
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Hoke-y-gun
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:58 am Post subject: Re: relieved? |
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| sharhim wrote: |
| So strange to hear some say they're relieved that Kotesol doesn't make a practice of prayer, and being offended at the name of Jesus. He's the One who gave us life and who offers eternal life. If it's just a random comment, I can understand the ignorance; but if anyone cares enough to logically compare all worldviews and their answers on origin, meaning, morality and dignity, statements like that above are purely irrational. Well, I hope someone out there cares enough to do a little research. |
Well, he's not the one who gave me life, and I'm not going to belong to or support an organization that claims so. |
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OiGirl
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Hoke-y-gun
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:02 am Post subject: Re: relieved? |
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| jinks wrote: |
| Anyway, back to KOTESOL. Were you there? The prayers were tedious in the extreme, long-winded and uninspiring. Jesus is not my boyfriend, or my buddy, he wasn't an invited speaker and the woman leading the prayer was not communing with the deity, she was waffling. It would have sufficed to say something like "may God bless our endeavours" - being a Christian university and all - but she couldn't just leave it at that, she had to bang on and on as if Jesus was some kind of KOTESOL sub-committee member who would like us to have a good time. |
Well, I hope there was the option to walk out, offensively but respectfully if necessary. Was the prayer in English or Korean? (Or Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic?) |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: relieved? |
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| sharhim wrote: |
| So strange to hear some say they're relieved that Kotesol doesn't make a practice of prayer, and being offended at the name of Jesus. He's the One who gave us life and who offers eternal life. If it's just a random comment, I can understand the ignorance; but if anyone cares enough to logically compare all worldviews and their answers on origin, meaning, morality and dignity, statements like that above are purely irrational. Well, I hope someone out there cares enough to do a little research. |
Pwuahahahahahahahahaa!!!!!
(Sorry, that's the best I could do on short notice.... ) |
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jinks
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Location: Formerly: Lower North Island
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: relieved? |
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| OiGirl wrote: |
Well, I hope there was the option to walk out, offensively but respectfully if necessary. Was the prayer in English or Korean? (Or Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic?) |
No we were in a holding loop.
Everything was running late, even the keynote speaker - Paul Nation - was cut short. The prayer was in English and we were in an auditorium, walking out was not an option. It would have beeen rude, I think, to have harrumphed my way to the exit the minute someone suggested a prayer, I can handle it, but the praying woman just kept on going, she wouldn't shut up. I had forgotten to switch off my phone, and at that time my ring tone was a loud and clear Buddhist chant (a prayer to open your heart and mind before approaching sacrd texts); unfortunately no one rang me during the prayer time, if they had I would not have scrabbled too fast to switch it off. It would have been amusing, but Divine Providence did not decree any such comedy. |
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OiGirl
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Hoke-y-gun
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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If there is a faith-specific prayer that lasts for more than 60 seconds, I am walking out. If you find that rude, I find it rude to be subjected to prayers I don't agree with at an event I believe to be secular.
Will there be prayers this fall? Is Sookmyung a religious school? |
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sharhim
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| If anyone would like to continue the prayer-related discussion, perhaps we should move to another area. Please feel free to email / send me your address so I can invite you to another blog space. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| OiGirl wrote: |
| If there is a faith-specific prayer that lasts for more than 60 seconds, I am walking out. If you find that rude, I find it rude to be subjected to prayers I don't agree with at an event I believe to be secular. |
Exactly. Even t.v. advertisements are usually 30 seconds, no more than 60.
Put the prayer on the agenda, showing it and its length on the program. That is the minimum that should be done if a nonreligious institution is hosting a nonreligious conference. |
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tzechuk
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I share you guys' sentiments. I was a little shocked that there was a prayer, too. Yeah, I will put it on next meeting's agenda. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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Thank God it's at Sookmyung... I can actually get there before the second sessions!!
Well, actually, maybe not. TESOL should consider discounts for people who have to come up the night before, or consider having it at the same place each year, as centrally located as possible.
Or maybe Korea should just build more bullet train routes.
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