Korean Job Discussion Forums

[MantisBot]

So I've been looking for a job in Korea for quite some time and this is what I've noticed:

No matter how illegal a contract may be, when I try to negotiate the bare minimum of legalities the next thing I know the school either has found someone who took the contract as is or I just never hear from them again.

Some of the things I've requested that have lost me jobs are:

*Asking to be put on the national health plan.
*Asking that the hours that I will be expected to work will be put in the contract as well as what constitutes a teaching hour.
*Asking to speak to some of the teachers at the school.
*Asking that vacation days not include weekends.
*Asking that a listing of furnishings be in the contract.
*Asking for a clause stating that an 80kwon per month fee for time left in my contract in the event that I am fired or leave the job be replaced with a clause stating that I would be charged for my airline ticket to Korea in the event that the contract were terminated before 6 months.
*Asking for a clarification of school policies in regard to teacher behavior, dress code, and procedures.
*Asking for at least 4 paid sick days as well as 5 emergency days in the event of such things as a death in the family or serious injury/illness.
*Asking for a clause that states all money owed me (severance/last month's pay) be paid on my last teaching day.

There are more but you get the gist of it.

I have little previous experience as an ESL teacher (little as in I've taught a few people 1 on 1 in school, worked as an administrator for an ESL schoo, and I'm a musician:p). Do I need to have experience before I can demand a minimally legal contract? I know there are quite a few people on this board who have been teaching for quite some time and I just want to ask them, when you post replies to people's contracts are you telling them to demand things one could get as an inexperienced teacher or are you telling them to demand things which you as an experienced member of the field readily expect to receive?

My next question is this: if you are given a contract with illegal stipulations in it how do you go about challenging it without causing the employer to just give up on you and hire someone else? I've applied for jobs with all kinds of schools ranging from small family owned hogwans to big chains and NONE of them have had contracts that were--by the Labor Law standards--legal. Some of them have come close but when I had the *audacity* to ask--for instance--that I be put on the national health plan or perhaps that teaching hours be listed in the contract the next thing I know some girl has been found and I'm looking for another job.

If you couldn't tell I'm getting a wee bit frustrated.

So yeah, any help in this matter would be most appreciated. I'm getting a little tired of this roller-coaster ride of "having a job" and then not "having a job" again. It's like I'm Charlie Brown trying to kick that frickin football and the schools are Lucy, pulling that ball away at the last second every time.

Them: "You're HIRED!"
Me: "Cool, can I have the hours in the contract, health insurance, and a few paid sick days?"
Them: "You're NOT hired! Take your commie demands elsewhere you lazy American!"

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Sorry if I sound cynical, I'm just a wee bit frustrated with the job search as of yet.

[corroonb]

I'm sure you've heard this before but Koreans seem to view a written contract as being flexible and subject to change. Often a verbal agreement is seen as the real contract. Look at this link for more details:

http://seoul.usembassy.gov/t_contract.html

I have no experience of this yet but I'm sure you'll have lots of advice in a few hours. Good luck with your search.

[Grotto]

Your choices are:

take the job with all its illegal clauses and then either refuse to do them once you're here or go to the labour board

OR

Keep looking, there are decent jobs out there.

Ones that you should always move on for are:

If they refuse to let you talk to other teachers there
if they refuse to give you a set schedule

the ones that are in conflict with the labour laws are moot as you are protected by them and they are unenforcable (if you have the backbone to stand up to them)

[MantisBot]

Thanks Grotto. I wasn't aware that even after you sign the contract illegal clauses were unenforcable. Also, would you happen to know of a thread that discusses how exactly you go about petitioning the labor board in matters of contractual disputes?

Funny thing with the current job I'm applying for: they haven't even called me yet and we've been discussing things over the past week:p Perhaps it's time to kick my recruiter in the butt... maybe he'll send me some to some people that would like to speak with me before hiring me.

[ttompatz]

[antoniothegreat]

i got lucky and didnt have to put up with the carp you do, but my advice is this: you are doing nothing wrong, you are simply protecting yourself. keep doing it, it is worth waiting the extra time to get a solid job, so you dont have to come here for a year in hell if they are bad.

i believe many koreans believe any whitey can teach, so they are probabley telling a bunch of people they are hired, and waiting for the first one to sign and board a plane, then they cancel the rest. That is how many Koreans think. I would suggest to speed up the process, do the same. If you aren't already, talk to 5 schools at a time, that way you dont have to cycle through one at a time and wait to get a negative response, as soon as you find a good fit, dump the rest. That is their logic, use it against them.

Lastly, you are not asking for anything outrageous, you are not asking to be overpaid, or ridiculous vacation, only that laws be followed and things clarified. if these schools are not willing to write them in a contract, they probabley are carp schools anyways, and you wouldnt want to work for them, so dont worry.

Good luck.

[ttompatz]

[antoniothegreat]