Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Captain Corea]

Ok, every week or so now (and for the past few years it seems) we've been bombarded with headlines ripping foreign teachers to shreds. Some of the accusations are well founded, and many teachers here have witnessed them, but some are just off the wall.

I was reading the Marmot�s tonight
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/25/breaknews-article-on-naughty-english-teachers-up/
and got to wondering what the solution is. I know this is nothing new. I know we have hashed this out many times and threads before. But what I�m wondering is, what would you change? If you had the power, how would you�


-stem the tide of �Tourist Teachers�? (those without VISAs)
-weed out unqualified foreign applicants (is a BA the only answer)?
-confront the growing demand for criminal checks?
-protect the power of the contract?
-ensure all parties are committed to seeing the contract through?
-deal with unqualified Korean English teachers (both in private or public systems)?
-address the reported over-emphasis on English?
-make sure that reporting on the issue was done even handedly?

I know we�ve all thrown out opinions. Whenever these type of scandals come up, everyone seems to pile on. But in those cases, it is usually fueled by some retaliatory anger. Why not take the opportunity now (as it seems we are occasionally being monitored by certain papers) to set out some clear ideas for improvement?


-CC

[Hater Depot]

Those are all just symptoms.

The cause is the out-of-control demand for English here, which really has reached ludicrous heights. People waste all their time and money to get high TOEIC scores and pass English interviews for jobs in which they never use English. I mean, if English education here were actually that effective, there wouldn't be so much demand that tourists and people with fake diplomas can get jobs no questions asked.

So I say, fundamentally, Koreans need to re-assess just how much English they really need, then tighten standards and be willing to treat fairly and pay more to those teachers who meet the new requirements. I think they would see a dramatic increase in the effectiveness of their system if they did that.

[laogaiguk]

Give us our visas instead of our employers. That would really help clean up the industryl. Not all of them, but a lot of them. The only problem with this is you will see prepaid flights disappear (or be paid at the end of the contract, or maybe become like Japan with a bonus, etc.) but it would be worth it.

[Ya-ta Boy]

[bosintang]

I have a solution. Stop studying English. I honestly don't see the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for all these speakers who spent years in hagwons but will never have the opportunity to speak a lick of in their lives after graduating college.

More seriously, as Yata-Boy said, they really should just stop hiring foreigners, and take control of their own education.

[Qinella]

In keeping with Hater Depot's line of thinking, there needs to be an overhaul in the system. Private lessons should be allowed, and should become the preference over hagwons, since nothing can beat one-on-one instruction when it comes to language acquisition. (You ever seen the kids who get tutored at home by their fluent-English parents? The difference is amazing.)

Naturally, the cost for lessons would go down, and parents could afford to do private lessons each day of the week. Hagwons would go out of business, so that puts an end to the worries about contracts. The qualification issue is almost moot, because the parent and student will quickly realize for themselves whether or not the person is qualified, and then they'll spread the word. The good teachers will prosper, the bad ones (ideally) won't.

I can see why Koreans are all aflurry to learn English, but they're going about it the wrong way. Hagwons are okay, but if it takes a child five years of study just to put together a grammatically correct request to use the restroom, something's lacking.

[bosintang]

Call me a cynic, but the driving force behind these 'scandals' have little to do with improving education and more with disapprovement of English teachers lifestyles, so it's really futile to try to talk about 'cleaning up' the industry.

The only solution to this kind of xenophobia or moral outrage is to simply not hire us and deal with our lifestyle 'problem'.

[Captain Corea]

here are mine:

-stem the tide of �Tourist Teachers�? (those without VISAs)
Have anyone with more than two consecutive tourist visas subjected to questioning and partial investigation (this could be as simple as running a credit check or internet search) when entering the country.
-weed out unqualified foreign applicants (is a BA the only answer)?
I honestly don't think that the BA is the key. I'm scared to touch this one as I thik eliminating that BA would cause some serious caos, but maybe a TESL minimum?
-confront the growing demand for criminal checks?
Korean Immi should send out a fax to all relevant embassies that they will now be requiring this for any E2 applicants. Hopefully the "western countries" will give detail on how it can be obtained in their respective country. I do think though that this does not need to be carried out by Korean Immi but rather as part of the paperwork submitted on the E2's behalf.
-protect the power of the contract?
I know I'll hear chuckles, but I honestly think it is heading in this direction. The help desk + labour board are (slowly) stepping up.
-ensure all parties are committed to seeing the contract through?
To do this I think iswhere the major overhaul comes in. I do not think anyone should be given a permit to open a hogwon unless they have teaching credentials. Starting with an education first philosophy will go a long way to helping the commitment to the contract and the school.
-deal with unqualified Korean English teachers (both in private or public systems)?
SEPT tests should be administered to all public school teachers. If they can't pass, no teaching English.
-address the reported over-emphasis on English?
Personally, I'm not sure if it's totally over-rated. Most of the multi-national and Korean companies I work with use English regularly. Anyone hoping to enter the professional field would be well advised to cntinue studying it. However, many young people will never get there and maybe instead focus on trades. No need to subject them to years of something they'll never really use.
-make sure that reporting on the issue was done even handedly?
I'm going to catch flack for this one as well, but I think that certain internet boards need stronger moderation. far too many racial and sexual slurs seem to float by. As the largest forum around, something needs to be done here. If people complain, make your own forum and flame away.

[bosintang]

[I_Am_Wrong]

Get rid of idiots who post pictures of korean prostitutes on a website and say it's their high school students.

Get weird of wackos that have photo sites dedicated to Korean girls in mini skirts and the the legs of Korean girls

Get rid of anyone who goes to Itaewon more than twice a week (unless you work or live in Itaewon...then I just feel sorry for ya).

Get rid of whiners

Form a working group that meets bi-monthly to discuss issues and to present a native teacher perspective to the Korean media.
The group should include someone who is fluent or near fluent in Korean. This group could then be responsible for presenting the Foreign teacher side of things to the Korean media. The Korean language media only presents foreign teachers in a negative light. Getting media coverage of things like orphanage visits and so on could be a step into the right direction.

[Captain Corea]

Bosintang- While i agree with a few of your points, I wonder about not worrying about illegal teachers. If anyone could act irrsponsibly, it may be them. If it is a lifestyle choice, they are the ones with the least to lose (not to say they are the ones to blame, but they often have the least tying them here).

FYI, most the TT (tourist teachers) I know here are 30+ years old (most older) and have been here for YEARS. I think an easy rule at the airport might make these illegals think twice about some of the ways they conduct themselves.

[huffdaddy]

[bosintang]

[dulouz]

I feel like running an ad for "criminal background checks" on Dave's ESL Cafe job board. I can have my Romanian secretary do all the work while I stay in Thailand.

I ran an ad for degree checking. I got some phone calls but no cash. CDI soaked me for some free consultation.

[Woland]

End the high stakes exam system for so many valued things. Right now, getting into university, getting a promotion, and many other valued goods depend on results on a single exam, often in English. No one in the testing world supports this. No test is a completely accurate measure of anyone's abilitty for anything and should not be relied on as the sole arbiter of the qualifications. Begin to use multiple measures, including personal and subjective ones, within well-defined parameters.

The reliance on single tests developed because it was assumed that they are neutral and cannot be biased or swayed or corrupted. This belief that other possible measures of people's abilities are corrupt reflects a distinct lack of trust in the system (e. g., If we used teacher recommendations as part of the system for determining who gets into university, people wouldd brribe teachers to write good recommendations). For those interested, see the chapter on corruption in Italian football in James Surowiecki's The Wisdom of Crowds for a discussion of the relatively recent development of trust as a value in the west. One way to help the development of trust here would be to create massive disincentives to behave in untrustworthy ways - take bribes for school recommendations, receive long jail terms, seizure of assets, public huimiliation. Another way is to rely on multiple sources of information about candidates. A university entrance committee that sees that a certain teacher's recommendations don't match up with other sources of data about a candidate, they'll start discounting them. Then get the word out.

For improving actual teaching, raise standards for getting a teaching visa and end the restriction of such visas to so-called native speakers (based on the assumption (false) that holders of passports from particular countries are native speakers and somehow, automatically better teachers; in the field, this is called 'The Native Speaker Fallacy'.) There are a lot of well-qualified, talented non-native speaker teachers, some off whom would be willing to come to Korea and teach, either for the money (and probably less money) or the adventure. Cutting the bottom out of the current wage scale would eliminate some of the hacks immediately. Tighter visa requirements and stricter enforcement would help the situation. (BTW, the people who argue that illegal, degreeless teachers do the rest of us no harm are full of it. The fact that we are having this discussion is proof that they do harm to us every day. Turn them in, collect the reward. I have no problem with it.)

In parallel with the changes suggested above, end the focus on getting a native speaker in every school and focus on getting qualified teachers in every school. Use money saved in salaries to buy DVD players (if you gotta have that 'native speaker' accent) and use what's left to support improvements in teacher education in Korea. If necessary, use parts of it to support the education of more Korean teachers and teacher educators abroad. There is a great new generation of Korean teacher educators being trained in the west. The sad news is that many of them are going into testing as a specialty because that is where the money is here (See the first paragraph above). Make it attractive for them to work in other aspects of applied linguistics.

Lots of the ideas other people had above are good - ending the ban on privates (though I suggest that my suggestions would also make those less attractive), giving visas to teachers, not employers. All good ideas, involving reordering the regulation of the English teaching market to make it freer and more efficient. Do I think that if these things were implemented, our problems would go away - No, but I think they would be reduced. Do I think any of these ideas will be implemented soon? Sadly, no.