Korean Job Discussion Forums

[wylies99]

[Milwaukiedave]

The question would be then, what kind of documents and would the school and/or recruiter have a chance to rebutt the claim being made against them?

[jjmonkey]

[The Bobster]

There is another reason, not mentioned yet, that a blacklist sticky on this site would not work.

The owner of this site derives income from it, and the income does not come from us English teachers who post here, it comes mostly from hagwons and recruiters who advertize job listings and pay for access to the 'post your resume' page. (Clue : if you post your resume, check it carefully for typos before hitting enter, because even YOU cannot read your own words on this area of the site unless you pay first ...)

Now obviously that creates a conflict of interest right away, doesn't it? If someone describes and names a school or recruiter that did them dirty, and the site's owner notices it's a school that has and likely will continue to pay him the money that puts food in the mouths of his children ... well, he'd be a fool not to delete that entry, wouldn't he? And if he didn't notice, but the offending school did notice, and mentioned it to him, he'd delete it without a second though, right? I mean, I sure would.

Just the fact that some sponsors would regularly be excluded from being listed just because they ARE sponsors would make such a blacklist at this particular site very useless, credibility-wise, I would think ...

If I'm missing something in all this, correct me and set me straight.

[inkoreaforgood]

[inkoreaforgood]

[Milwaukiedave]

inkoraforgood,

I tend to agree with you about a law forum, it is a bad idea to add one to Dave's ESL.

I was curious if anyone had a response for these questions?

[jjmonkey]

[Cerriowen]

Kids Club Namgu in Busan = Hell on Earth.

[bosintang]

Korea has a god awful reputation among teachers in Japan and Thailand, I can say that much from my own experiences.

I can understand why. Knowing what I know about Korea, I'd never take a job here from overseas ever again. In fact, I'd never work in a hagwon ever again.

Honestly, Korea's a crapshoot at the best of times. Good schools go bad, bad schools go bankrupt, but there are patterns. How do you get along with the people who currently work there? Does the name of the school sound like a babysitting service? Does the supervisor speak English well? How long has the school been in business and how many students are there? How *relatively* professional is the contract ? Does it sound too good to be true (and if so, it probably is)?


Rather than nitpicking through individual details in contracts, and deciphering details in boring he said/she said debates on the internet, it's better to talk to the schools, talk to the people you'll be working with and working for. Don't deal with only one recruiter, deal with a couple of them, and don't take the first contract they offer you. Take your time and take a look at a few contracts through a few different recruiters, and get a feel for what is out there.

[juicyhumdinger]

From my experience, Epik is a serious crapshoot. But thats already been mentioned before.

After 2 years, I'm not resigning, despite the increase in salary. If I get it at all. Hasn't been mentioned yet in any of the informal discussions i've had with either of my supervisors. Considering the crap the last six months, I'm not even going to bring it up.

If I find a good uni gig, i'll stick around Korea, otherwise, Sayonara!

[flint]

Not only would it be hard to provide documentation, it would be hard to even get corroboration frm co-workers. I hate to put it in these terms but most people are more concerned about themselves than about backing up someone who was wronged.

When another teacher and I were going through hell at my last hagwon all we got was lip service from co-workers, foreign and Korean. Now I didn't expect anyone to quit over it, but not one of them even told the Kim's they were wrong to be doing what they were to us. The school had 6 teachers, 2 were being f'd over, and not one of the other 4 said a word.

The attitude of 1 of them the last time I talked to her was "They are being nice to me now and that is all that matters." She has conveniently forgot months of consistently late pay last year. Of talking about pulling a runner a few times this spring. NOW they are nice to her, so it doesn't matter what they do or have done to anyone else. When they turn on her, and they will, she had best not be coming to me for sympathy.

Then you have past co-workers who were screwed over in some way. They fall into 2 categories of inactivity. One, they would rather forget what happened than to get involved with it again. They have left korea, won't be back, and don't care anymore. The second category is those who the school still has some hold over. This can be due to a spouse/relative working there still or some sort of threat to mess up their current job in korea.

All of this makes it VERY hard to get any corroboration. Whether it is from people still working at the hell hole in question, or those who have left.

[Homer]

You make a good point flint.

However for each of the examples you cited, one could cite examples of teachers who ran on their schools for no good reason (i.e. they just could not handle it and In such instances, former co-workers or former employers posting online simply get bashed and insulted.

You could also discuss how some post serious accusations at schools that are later proven to be hoaxes.

All these situations lead to bad or incomplete information circulating. Hence blacklists, while they have their uses should all post a disclaimer about content.

[PaperTiger]

[Homer]

Paper tiger...hence the reason for a disclaimer about content.

Information needs to flow both ways man...not just the way you want it too.