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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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 Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
Correlation is not causality. I'm not about to look all off these studies up, but I doubt any of them use the hard core (pun intended) statistical methodology that could control selection biases. In other words, show me evidence that porn causes deviant behavior and not that deviants use porn. Case and point: the Middle East. Not much porn, but plenty of deviant behavior (wrt treatment of women). |
Good example, but the ideology of Islam is to mistreat women. In otherwords, pornography isn't the only source that causes violence against women. Any ideology that doesn't embrace the fullness of justice and righteousness will eventually turn towards oppressing women and children.
Sure, many people who use porn are not going to go and rape and abuse women and children. However, those who have committed hard crime are generally heavy users of pornography and sexual material.
It is a slippery slope (excuse the pun). Pornography is about the degradation of the human body and when people continually expose themselves to mental images and graphic material, the desire only becomes stronger. They then want to see what they are visualizing become manifested into physical form. Not everyone has the self-control or desire to rent a hooker or hook up with some chick or guy. Many want a fantasy to control and to manipulate the desired object through cohersion. It is one gateway to see the totally ugliness of humanity.
If there then is causality between sexual offenders and pornography. Then should society pull the plug on pornography to protect innocent bystanders? |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
If there then is causality between sexual offenders and pornography. Then should society pull the plug on pornography to protect innocent bystanders? |
No. Society should lock up the sexual offenders. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
If there then is causality between sexual offenders and pornography. Then should society pull the plug on pornography to protect innocent bystanders? |
No. Society should lock up the sexual offenders. |
Justice is never served when it is reactive rather than proactive. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| huffdaddy wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
If there then is causality between sexual offenders and pornography. Then should society pull the plug on pornography to protect innocent bystanders? |
No. Society should lock up the sexual offenders. |
Justice is never served when it is reactive rather than proactive. |
So the Minority Report is your ideal? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
Justice is never served when it is reactive rather than proactive. |
Justice is reactive. We do not restrict rights based on the idea you might commit a crime. You have a record button on your VCR for that very reason.
Society should be proactive but not through the courts. Why do we have to let the courts raise your children? You can't raise them to figure out the difference between fantasy and reality? Oh you're a special case and all those other people can't be trusted and we need to ban all kinds of art and writing? |
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superdave
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: over there ----->
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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justice is really created to protect the minority from the majority. western societies are more oligarchy than democratic.
in response to the exact discussion regarding pornography, true democracy means the freedom to choose. so banning pornography isn't democratic.
people who don't like pornography have the freedom to choose not to look at it. if it's in hotel rooms, then they have the freedom not to turn on the tv or the freedom not to watch those channels.
people who like pornography have the freedom to watch it.
freedom means not forcing your beliefs onto others and not having their beliefs forced on to you.
by banning pornography, other people are forcing their beliefs onto you. this is not freedom and it's not democratic.
end of story ... |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:16 am Post subject: |
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Bible belt states lead in divorce rate. Golly, a strong correlation between people who claim to be hardcore bible thumbers and divorce. And it's lowest in those godless states. By your logic, being Christian leads to broken families and failed marriages. Maybe we should ban fundamentalism Christianity and reading the bible. To be proactive. To save the children from the horrible effects of divorce.
Which way you want it, 5chickens? |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:55 am Post subject: |
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Didn't read them all, but the two I looked over were studies on pornography and the correlation between violent crimes on society in general. And not with hard core killers/rapists.
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| Bible belt states lead in divorce rate. Golly, a strong correlation between people who claim to be hardcore bible thumbers and divorce. And it's lowest in those godless states. By your logic, being Christian leads to broken families and failed marriages. Maybe we should ban fundamentalism Christianity and reading the bible. To be proactive. To save the children from the horrible effects of divorce. |
They also are struggling with pornography as well. Like I have said a few times, just because people say they are Christians doesn't mean they are.
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| in response to the exact discussion regarding pornography, true democracy means the freedom to choose. |
Freedom in choosing truth. When you choose a lie, it doesn't bring freedom. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| Like I have said a few times, just because people say they are Christians doesn't mean they are. |
Ain't that the truth. You're a wonderful example of that.
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| Freedom in choosing truth. When you choose a lie, it doesn't bring freedom. |
So we should pass a law forcing people to choose "truth". Whose truth? |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
[quote="mindmetoo"]
| fiveeagles wrote: |
| Like I have said a few times, just because people say they are Christians doesn't mean they are. |
Ain't that the truth. You're a wonderful example of that. |
Thanks.  Why do you even bother? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="fiveeagles"]
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
| Like I have said a few times, just because people say they are Christians doesn't mean they are. |
Ain't that the truth. You're a wonderful example of that. |
Thanks. Why do you even bother? |
Why do you even bother to hunt 'n' peck out lame platitudes that you can't bother to defend.
"Freedom in choosing truth. When you choose a lie, it doesn't bring freedom."
Who decides what is a lie? Your bible? Your interpretation of the bible? You want a theocracy? |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="mindmetoo"]
| fiveeagles wrote: |
| Quote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
| Like I have said a few times, just because people say they are Christians doesn't mean they are. |
Ain't that the truth. You're a wonderful example of that. |
Thanks. Why do you even bother? |
Why do you even bother to hunt 'n' peck out lame platitudes that you can't bother to defend.
"Freedom in choosing truth. When you choose a lie, it doesn't bring freedom."
Who decides what is a lie? Your bible? Your interpretation of the bible? You want a theocracy? |
You could have left the question mark off that, and it would have been true. |
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nasigoreng
Joined: 14 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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I've watched perhaps 15 pornographic movies in my whole life. 1/3 from the late 80's, 1/3 made the 90's, and 1/3 made in the last 10 years.
The more recent pictures are so much more extreme; it more like a human anatomy lesson. This is the narcotic effect of pornography; there is the need to go further and further. For example:
* Shaving the pubic hair to give the impression of pre-pubescence.
* Gang bang 'competitions'
* vaginal penetration has become mundane.
* intercourse between 2 has become mundane.
* and then there's bukake http://www2.b3ta.com/bukkake/
Now, i'm turned off by pornography. I use my own imagination, and it's free 
| Quote: |
Porn creep is the process by which sexually explicit content infiltrates American pop culture. Many people blame (or credit) the abundance of sexual imagery and innuendo in movies, television and advertising on the increased accessibility and "cool factor" of pornography. It is also now a colloquialism to describe a condition in which a person (typically male) is unable to engage in any form of sexual activity without the presence of pornographic stimulus.
The term porn creep is related to the psychological concept of escalation in violent and/or sexual behaviour, whereby the graphic or physical nature of certain acts becomes more extreme (or escalates) over time.
Naomi Wolf, a famous feminist author from the 1970s penned an article entitled The Porn Myth in New York Magazine in which she famously argued, "In the end, porn doesn�t whet men�s appetites�it turns them off the real thing". The article itself details changes in American sexual culture brought about by "Porn creep"
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-from wikipedia
Like any other drug, i think pornography can be used and abused. The problem is that the line between use and abuse is so blurred because pornographic materials/images are so ubiquitous in US society and the effects are mental, not physical.
Would you feel comfortable letting your hot Korean wife or your 12 y.o. daughter swim alone at a Mariott pool knowing that the adult men around the pool area had just been watching some hard-core pornography? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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Would you feel comfortable letting your hot Korean wife or your 12 y.o. daughter swim alone at a Mariott pool knowing that the adult men around the pool area had just been watching some hard-core pornography?
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But you yourself said you use your own imagination, and seem to imply that it's more of a turn on than porn. What if the men around the pool had been using THEIR own imaginations to fantasize about sex, prior to watching someone's "hot Korean wife" go for a swim? |
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