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| You can ONLY CHOOSE ONE, which would it be? |
| Give me LIBERTY or give me death |
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82% |
[ 19 ] |
| Guaranteed State Security |
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17% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 23 |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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 Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: Freedom OR Security? |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
There's a famous quote attributed to Ben Franklin that essentially reads:
Those who trade freedom for security does not deserve, nor will they ever receive either.
Other public figures are known to have expressed similiar sentiments.
What do you think?
Are you happy to forfeit or sacrifice your personal freedoms, civil rights & the like in the face of a few bombs going off, various other acts of "terror", MAFIA-styled intimidation tactics & the like, or are you genuinely committed to resisting ALL forms of tyranny? |
Well done IGTG - the right question at the right time. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:15 am Post subject: |
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| Well done IGTG - the right question at the right time. |
I agree. It is like my father, a European who would always check twice , the door. Fearful of being robbed after reading all the reports from the city newspaper. Trouble was, we lived 5km from the nearest house, 30 km from the nearest town and our driveway would hardly have been ever noticed even by the most keen sighted thief.
He was driven by fear, his upbringing . And a sad fear that is. I prefered my friends in town. If I went over to borrow a CD and they weren't in, I'd just walk in and leave a note....
A distant world away but one we might reflect upon.
DD |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
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| My opinion is if a governement is prepared to reduce the liberties of the individual for the sake of safety, they are heading towards a fascist era |
An absurd and extreme opinion. When there are people willing to commit mass murder, necessary measures must be taken to protect people's safety. |
The only ones i see actually doing the mass murdering, are the same ones trying to reduce freedom for the individual (all over the world).
Absurd, Extreme, ..., people call me an idiot, but not Absurd and Extreme. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Here is the Ben Franklin quote:
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| They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security |
I'm curious. For years the IRA was into terrorist acts...blowing up things and people. Is the threat from Islamic terrorists so much greater than it was from the IRA? Did people talk about banning Catholics (again)? Obviously when someone threatens your life, precautions need to be taken, but the best 'revenge' is to continue leading your life as before. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
Here is the Ben Franklin quote:
| Quote: |
| They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security |
I'm curious. For years the IRA was into terrorist acts...blowing up things and people. Is the threat from Islamic terrorists so much greater than it was from the IRA? Did people talk about banning Catholics (again)? Obviously when someone threatens your life, precautions need to be taken, but the best 'revenge' is to continue leading your life as before. |
No, people did not talk about banning Catholics because the IRA could not count on support from other Catholics, be they British or Italian or whoever because it was not a religious struggle but an ethnic/political struggle. Catholics in England did not form their own religious organisations calling for the overthrow of the British state, or threatening violence.
There were not any English catholics supporting the IRA, and there were certainly no examples of extremist priests in the UK inciting violence against Protestants, or justifying or tacitly condoning terrorist violence. The IRA may have had some limited support amongst the Irish immigrant community, and this community did rightly come under more scrutiny, yet there were no examples of British born young men of Irish descent, plotting mass murder against their own nation. This is because they saw themselves as British first and Catholic second. This is completely different from the Islamic idea of the Ummah, which comes before all national identities and which encourages young men in East London to identify with their 'brothers' in the Middle East.
The problem with Islamic migration is not one mainly of terrorism but with their complete lack of integration and de facto colonisation of vast areas of urban Britain. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:26 am Post subject: |
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*bump*  |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Keep Jeff Rense supporters out of the US . The less of them there are in the US the better. Jeff Rense supporters are on the side of the terorrists. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Keep Jeff Rense supporters out of the US . The less of them there are in the US the better.
Jeff Rense supporters are on the side of the terorrists. |
So Adolf is this a brainstrorm you just came up with recently?
Don't think we've heard this from you before 
How about banning anyone for bad avatars? Sounds good to me. Rather consistent with your genius "logic" isn't it?
Ah yes, thank goodness for those "eureka" moments. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Keep Jeff Rense supporters out of the US . The less of them there are in the US the better.
Jeff Rense supporters are on the side of the terorrists. |
So Adolf is this a brainstrorm you just came up with recently?
Don't think we've heard this from you before
How about banning anyone for bad avatars? Sounds good to me. Rather consistent with your genius "logic" isn't it?
Ah yes, thank goodness for those "eureka" moments. |
when you call someone Adolph is that a compliment you neo nazi bigot?
No Jeff Rense supporters are an enemy of the US. they want the terrorists to win and the US goverment weakened or destroyed.
You don't let those who assist the enemy into your own nation.
In fact those who belong to groups who want to overthrow the US government are not allowed US visas.
Jeff Rense's business is disinformation to hurt the US- as is yours. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:38 am Post subject: |
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Well, i still say the "free" world should come down hard on banning tasteless avatars.
Say, who knows, if you ran the right kind of campaign, they might even recruit you
as the heroic avatar police chief !
Keep on Rockin'  |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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why can't you just answer the basic question:
What is more important: Freedom OR Security ? |
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