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MESL
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
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 Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:18 am Post subject: |
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Adding a blacklist to a business site creates an inherent conflict, therefore it's an inherently bad idea. As for Dave's detractors, they come and go in a few months while he's been in it for the long haul. It's like the mushrooms against the redwood. Yes, Dave operates his site for profit. So do a zillion other webmasters. What about you, do you teach for pay? This is the same message board where people complain about schools that don't pay enough.
The solution does not lie with the webmaster of a blacklist site. The solution lies with the teachers. The teacher who writes the report needs to write effectively. Teachers who read the report much dismiss it if it's nothing more than a rant. And none of us need to view a blacklist - even if there is only one, and even if everyone uses it - as a silver bullet. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| Another question is do you pay to post here? |
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PaperTiger
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: Ulaanbataar
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
Paper tiger...hence the reason for a disclaimer about content.
Information needs to flow both ways man...not just the way you want it too. |
Oh brother. Homer, you have a well-deserved reputation for being obtuse as well as santimonious. Thanks for re-stating what I said.
"Another question is do you pay to post here?" -Homer
No invective-magnet, I don't pay to post here any more than you get paid to moderate or post inane drivel. The central thust of my previous statements is that although a small group of people pay for advertising here, the bulk of the traffic consists of teachers...something which doesn't seem to weigh on Dave's conscience when he (or lackeys) deletes posts about bad schools.
If this forum actually represented any sort of community people might actually be able to make some sort of demand of Dave in this regard...or you all could go on not giving a toss. |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| something which doesn't seem to weigh on Dave's conscience when he (or lackeys) deletes posts about bad schools. |
We don't delete posts about bad schools on these Korean boards, although I fully expect you say that's BS.
Whatever 
Since it seems you dislike this site so much, why do you still post here? Masochism? How about making some useful, concrete suggestions about ways to keep blacklists fair?
Or even better, why not start your own site and do it the way you think it should be done?......so what are you waiting for?
Well? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="poof"]
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| I Essentially, EFL-law are admitting that foreigners will always be essentially legally powerless when they work here. Furthermore, lack of will power among many teachers will never see the creation of a teacher's union. In some ways, we've shot ourselves in the foot. . |
I just wanted to respond to this part of your post. You make some good points in the rest, but I have to point out that it's not so much a lack of will power (though that is a problem) as the fact that it is illegal for E-2 visa holders (who comprise the bulk of foreign teachers here) to form any kind of official union. |
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MESL
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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You read those job ads. You work for one of those advertisers. They pay you 2.0 million won a month. Plus benefits. Plus a contract completion bonus. They paid for your airfare and your apartment. They also paid a hefty fee to your recruiter. All of which costs them a lot more than advertising. True, they make a lot of money off ESL.
Why don't you start your own school or your own website?
BTW: I blacklisted a school on this board. I found the job through one of the ads. My blacklist post didn't get deleted. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Compared to some other EFL forums this one is pretty good about letting negative opinions stand. Look at all the negative stuff about ECC, for instance. ECC continues to advertise here - why? Because they know it's the best way to reach the greatest number of people.
I'd say that apart from the odd deletion for something really trivial, the site is working quite well, and there are always other blacklist sites we can link to. |
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PaperTiger
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: Ulaanbataar
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| canuckistan wrote: |
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| something which doesn't seem to weigh on Dave's conscience when he (or lackeys) deletes posts about bad schools. |
We don't delete posts about bad schools on these Korean boards, although I fully expect you say that's BS.
Whatever
Since it seems you dislike this site so much, why do you still post here? Masochism? How about making some useful, concrete suggestions about ways to keep blacklists fair?
Or even better, why not start your own site and do it the way you think it should be done?......so what are you waiting for?
Well? |
I just read here occasionally out of morbid curiosity. In the absence of any movement to motivate Dave in a more reasonable direction I choose to voice my objections with infrequent posts or not posting at all. I posted my useful suggestion: let people have their say and whoever wants to read it has to take it with a grain of salt.
I haven't made my own site because playing Half-Life 2 is far more productive than trying to assemble a community out of the same people who have failed to organize a front against the pitfalls of working in Korear for what is it now....more than 15 years? |
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Homer
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:00 am Post subject: |
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Paper tiger here is a hint: just because you ignore a question it does not mean it disapears or becomes invalid.
Thanks for playing.
To any person with a minimally functionning brain it is obvious this site is a business. It is run as such and the discussion area is provided for teachers free of charge. It allows for a great range of opinions to be voiced. Now, you just want things one way. Thats your choice. Sadly, life does not work that way and one day..perhaps you will get that. |
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Speakerz
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:54 am Post subject: |
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I hope this helps. I feel like some people have lost sight of the orginial post. Please make this a sticky. Obviously they don't delete all bad information about schools, I can find plenty to show you. All stickys do is have one place where we can go when we want to look for a blacklist. I can spend time searching the internet and even this sight for scattered sights. But why do that when it can be in one spot where people know where it is?
To the people who question the legitimacy of the blacklists. Of course!! Many people have said it, take it with a grain of salt. It should just be that yellow light...where you think about looking both ways, gunning it and trying to make it through the intersection or slamming on your brakes and waiting until you see green.
This site is a great resource for people. People are posting their opinions and that is what people need to take it as. If you dont like blacklists, never visit the "blacklist sticky." |
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judge-ing-na
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Location: beside myself
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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perhaps we need to look at the issue from a different side.
A black list would not happen on daves as bobster said so what about a
'white-list' ? It should be where teachers who have completed a contract at a school can post their PERSONAL EVALUATION of the school experience. At least this would help steer people in the right direction.
Any thoughts? |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe, but it's one thing to warn people of teachers and schools that did not meet their expectations and it's another to publish someone's confidential information and make slanderous accusations. |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| judge-ing-na wrote: |
perhaps we need to look at the issue from a different side.
A black list would not happen on daves as bobster said so what about a
'white-list' ? It should be where teachers who have completed a contract at a school can post their PERSONAL EVALUATION of the school experience. At least this would help steer people in the right direction.
Any thoughts? |
Actually there is de-facto "blacklist" here-- the myriad of threads in the Job Discussion forum. The only difference is they aren't compiled onto one thread.
I like your "white list" idea. It's positive and could show that teaching in Korea is not all poop and downers. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| canuckistan wrote: |
| judge-ing-na wrote: |
perhaps we need to look at the issue from a different side.
A black list would not happen on daves as bobster said so what about a
'white-list' ? It should be where teachers who have completed a contract at a school can post their PERSONAL EVALUATION of the school experience. At least this would help steer people in the right direction.
Any thoughts? |
Actually there is de-facto "blacklist" here-- the myriad of threads in the Job Discussion forum. The only difference is they aren't compiled onto one thread.
I like your "white list" idea. It's positive and could show that teaching in Korea is not all poop and downers. |
Yeah, it seems more productive than a black list. |
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kimchi_pizza
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Location: "Get back on the bus! Here it comes!"
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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What've you all got against black lists? Why's it gotta be "BLACK"?! Why can't a WHITE list be for rotten schools and black for all the groovy schools?!
Me? I can't stand the color pink! Aggrivates the heck outta me so I wanna make a PINK list for all those hogwans that need to be booted. For that matter, let's make a Green list for all those schools that pay above the national average....and Blue List for schools that provide nice two room apartments...and Red List for schools near bars, clubs...and Yellow List for good schools that hire rotten teachers...and Purple List for schools that accept rotten children.
In fact! I wanna make a list for cool Dave posters, and rotten Dave posters, and new Dave posters, and veteran Dave posters...and, and, and....! I gottta headache....no more color lessons in my class for a while! 
Wow, I just got a cold chill of McCarthyism running down my spine! |
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