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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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 Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:13 am Post subject: Re: Bush fans the flames of war... |
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| daskalos wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060815/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush
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Bush says Israel defeated Hezbollah By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - President Bush said Monday that Israel defeated Hezbollah's guerrillas in the monthlong Mideast war and that the Islamic militants were to blame for the deaths of hundreds of Lebanese civilians.
Bush admonished Iran and Syria for backing Hezbollah, which captured two Israeli soldiers on July 12 igniting the conflict. Both sides claimed victory Monday, hours after a U.N.-brokered cease-fire took effect, while Bush said Israel prevailed.
"Hezbollah attacked Israel. Hezbollah started the crisis, and Hezbollah suffered a defeat in this crisis," the president said at the State Department after a day of meetings with his top defense, diplomatic and national security advisers.
The United States backed Israel in the war, and Bush made clear he was determined to help the Israelis in the post-fighting struggle of words about who wound up on top.
The president portrayed the war, which killed about 790 Lebanese and 155 Israelis, as part of a broader struggle between freedom and terrorism. He said one can only imagine how much more dangerous such a conflict would be if Iran possessed nuclear weapons. |
Is this man not the biggest freaking idiot the planet has seen? Way to calm tensions there, Dumbya. And great job setting up the excuse to bomb/invade Iran. Ah, and a nice little threat of war has always done so well for you, and the puke party you represent, eh? |
I loathe George W. Bush. I think he is the worst president we've ever had.
But I'm not so fanatic in my loathing that I can't agree with him when I believe him, here and there, to be right. I believe there is no value in walking on eggshells in order to keep from inflaming fanatics (Hezbollah, Hamas, Abejimen-what-the-hell-ever-his-name-is-abad). In fact, since the fanatics are coming for us and our allies anyway, inciting them to leap to our tune is probably wiser than speaking sweetly to them until they're ready.
EFL Trainer, I believe you to be so blinded by your opposition to Bush that you refuse to consider that he might ever be right about anything, and that sounds to me like quite a childish way to be. It's children, after all, who are unable to hold two seemingly opposing thoughts in their head without having to reject utterly the idea that conflicts with what they want to believe.
I say again, I loathe Bush. His every domestic initiative, and many of his foreign ones. And it is idiotic how he has alienated, through his poorly chosen rhetoric, our allies. But my loathing of him doesn't change my mind about who our allies are or who our enemies are. And of our enemies, I still can discern between those who have a legimate reason for their anger at us and those who are fanatical monsters with whom there can be no reasoning or rapprochement.
There are worse things in the world than war -- an unjust "peace" is right at the top of the list. I am completely okay with his stance and rhetoric on the latest fighting between Israel, our ally, and its enemies. |
Perhaps you missed it due to the length of the thread, but I have already stated 1. I was not addressing his policy with regard to Israel/Lebanon (so how can you claim I am "blinded" to it?) and 2. I WAS addressing his rhetorical style. Please note that the term rhetorical style is a general thing. I did not say his rhetorical style with regard to Hezbolah. I have made several other statements that support this point.
So.... what are you posting about? |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:24 am Post subject: Re: Bush fans the flames of war... |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| So.... what are you posting about? |
Mostly I was posting as a test to see if you actually have anything to say. I got my answer. Thanks. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:03 am Post subject: Re: Bush fans the flames of war... |
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| daskalos wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| So.... what are you posting about? |
Mostly I was posting as a test to see if you actually have anything to say. I got my answer. Thanks. |
I answered you clearly, succinctly, logically, and on-topic. So, you were just playing stupid mind games? We already have nine pages of that.
Does anyone else see how this thread shows what is wrong with America and the world at large? The substance of arguments is ignored to "score" against the "opposition." Clearly logical arguments are belittled because they are not, and refuse to become, partisan sound bites. People who have clearly been shown to not understand the issue before them accuse the rational of irrationality for not following them into ever greater circles of irrationality.
This world is headed for a collapse. Global Warming will be blamed in the end, but it will have been the lazy, ego-driven "intellect" of man that actually allowed the collapse to destroy the modern world and force it to rebuild.
I posted a simple, and in former times INDISPUTABLE, concept that the presidency should not be used to CREATE and FOMENT war. That the presidency created by two of the greatest socio-political documents ever written has devolved into petty and childish cock measuring contests is a sad omen for not just Americans, but for the world, is a very dangerous situation.
Without the BALANCED leadership of a problem-solving, peace-seeking presidency, what is the world faced with? The boorish bellows of a man who cannot think beyond the concrete level of cognition; a man who cannot reason beyond the first or second level of ethical reasoning. In other words...
a child.
Previous administrations would have been pilloried for such careless and stupid rhetoric. But Americans stupidly convince themselves the danger they face from Al Queda is actually significant. IT ISN"T. More people die each year in the US from falling in their damned bathrooms, I'd wager!!!
Ah, they will destroy our way of life!!! BULLSHIT!!!! We have nothing to fear but fear itself!!!!!!!!!!!
Al Queda cannot now, and will never be able to, invade the US in anything nearing a conventional sense. 99% of Americans will NEVER feel the direct effects of Al Queda killing. So, why let them run our lives? Fear fits an agenda. For somebody.
But back to the real topic. On this thread we have seen people ignore the issue, so very vital for America and the world, of how the presidency presents itself in favor of personal flaming.
Plame anyone?
We have seen the insubstantial relation of issues of the presidency's rhetorical style said to be tied directly to the actions of others. A thing that stands on it's own tied to something unrelated, for emotional effect.
Iraq anyone?
But didn't our Mamas all tell us that we are responsible for our own behavior????? Or was only my Mama more intelligent than a stump? To wit:
Bush following the Israeli advance into Lebanon:
Israel won!!!! They beat up Hezzbollah!
Why could it not have been:
I believe Israel has created more secure borders against possible aggression from Hezzbolah.
Or:
Israel is here to stay. We need to find a workable solution to that reality that all parties can endorse.
Or:
Much blood has been spilled on both sides. Let us hope it is not in vain. And let no one doubt our commitment to Israel, to a Palestinian state, and to a Lebanon embraced in a lasting peace.
Or...
whatever.
ANYTHING but,
Nyah, nyah!! They kicked yer buuuuuuuuuuutts!!
All fall down, go boom. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| EFLTrainer on page 2 wrote: |
| It was about Bush and how he pushes his agenda and misuses his office. |
But then you just spent the last 3 pages telling us that the subject of this thread is his rhetorical style, and only his rhetorical style.
But who am I to tell you what your thread is about?
It's YOUR thread, after all.
So, if you want to change your position halfway through in order to 'win' the thread a trounce all opposition to your poistion(s), then who are we to gainsay this concept of thread ownership which you hold so dear? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
So, if you want to change your position halfway through in order to 'win' the thread a trounce all opposition to your poistion(s), then who are we to gainsay this concept of thread ownership which you hold so dear? |
Bulsajo, you are missing the beautiful esotericism that is EFLTrainer. Think about it. Who else changes their rhetorical rationalization for something midway through to undermine his opponents? George Bush! WMD! No, humanitarianism! No, we can't let terrorists have the oil!
EFL, keep it up, I think you're brilliant. I understand you. You are demonstrating to all of us how rhetorically grating, annoying, and alienating George Bush is! |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
| EFLTrainer on page 2 wrote: |
| It was about Bush and how he pushes his agenda and misuses his office. |
But then you just spent the last 3 pages telling us that the subject of this thread is his rhetorical style, and only his rhetorical style.
But who am I to tell you what your thread is about?
It's YOUR thread, after all.
So, if you want to change your position halfway through in order to 'win' the thread a trounce all opposition to your poistion(s), then who are we to gainsay this concept of thread ownership which you hold so dear? |
Nice, Bulsa. Thank you for again making my point. Out of everything I said above, you choose to, again, just pick, pick, pick.
BTW, you are incorrect. What you quoted and what I have said this thread is about are one and the same. He pushes his agenda with improper rhetoric. He misuses his office via his rhetoric. He uses the office as a bully pulpit with rhetoric that is utterly and completely inappropriate to the office of president.
C'mon... |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Bulsajo wrote: |
So, if you want to change your position halfway through in order to 'win' the thread a trounce all opposition to your poistion(s), then who are we to gainsay this concept of thread ownership which you hold so dear? |
Bulsajo, you are missing the beautiful esotericism that is EFLTrainer. Think about it. Who else changes their rhetorical rationalization for something midway through to undermine his opponents? George Bush! WMD! No, humanitarianism! No, we can't let terrorists have the oil!
EFL, keep it up, I think you're brilliant. I understand you. You are demonstrating to all of us how rhetorically grating, annoying, and alienating George Bush is! |
Good call Kuros.
My name is Bulsajo, and I endorse this message. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Jesus, you people are such sad little things... You had a meaty, well-written, pretty complete post to begin a dialogue with and you.... keep pissing in the snow.
You are what is wrong witht he world at this time. It's all about sound bites that mean nothing. Fools. You, and the rest of, will reap the shit you sown with. The fallow fields of your depleted minds will wreak havoc on the near and far future. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Hey, I'm just doing here what YOU do- selectively picking and choosing what to respond to.
"If the rules are unfair, don't get suckered into playing."
-The Lemon
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| You are what is wrong witht he world at this time. It's all about sound bites that mean nothing. Fools. You, and the rest of, will reap the *beep* you sown with. The fallow fields of your depleted minds will wreak havoc on the near and far future. |
Get a freakin' grip.
As for the "soundbites" comment, you seem to be the one most deficient here at being able to back up their quips with relevent factual information. |
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seoulshock
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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This has been the most entertaining thing I've read on Dave's in a long time.
Everyone clearly sees who can't defend his position, yet he's in denial, or at least trying to convince himself he knows what he's talking about... digging himself into a deeper hole each time, and making the many lurkers of this thread chuckle. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| canuckistan wrote: |
| canuckistan wrote: |
| Now where's that Corporal Shalit again? |
So where is this guy? He was (supposedly) a big part of the justification for Israel to roll into Lebanon.
Corporal Shalit has all but disappeared from the media these days. |
Family and friends mark Gilad Shalit's 20th birthday
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/755882.html
Israelis Rally For Abducted Soldiers
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7004714286
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This has been the most entertaining thing I've read on Dave's in a long time. |
I just re-read this entire thread and it's even funnier and more surreal than I had realized. EFLT, I strongly encourage you do to so as well.
Seoulshock, if you found this one entertaining I'll bet you'd also enjoy this one. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| seoulshock wrote: |
This has been the most entertaining thing I've read on Dave's in a long time.
Everyone clearly sees who can't defend his position, yet he's in denial, or at least trying to convince himself he knows what he's talking about... digging himself into a deeper hole each time, and making the many lurkers of this thread chuckle. |
Ah, yes, the pointless and insupportable ad hominem. Than you for playing.
Have a nice pee in the pool, children. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
| Hey, I'm just doing here what YOU do- selectively picking and choosing what to respond to. |
Bwuahahahaha!!!
You are no more interested in the topic of this thread than you are the price of squid in the Sahara. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Not at all.
Claiming to know my interests, my personal thoughts?
Isn't that more than a little presumptuous of you?
Given my many postings here on the subject of politics, political figures, and world events, I am as interested in this topic as anyone else posting here- including yourself.
I say you've gone back to your two unshakeable bad habits- implying (or accusing) everyone who disagrees with you of being immature [your response to Seoulshock] and deflecting away from the topic at hand with an ad hominem attack [your response to me].
These follow you like slime follows a slug.
P.S. Say, you didn't take my advice, did you? One day you will, and if you have any shred of decency and self-awareness you'll be pretty embarrassed by what you find. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:55 am Post subject: |
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You mean you really, truly are interested in the topic of this thread, the rhetorcal style of Dumbya?
Liar. |
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