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Shut Up and Racism
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JeJuJitsu



Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Location: McDonald's

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wylies99 wrote:
Quote:
obviously it is merely a mild insult sometimes in America



Um, where in the US is it a "mild" insult?


It's not an insult, by definition, it's just a more severe version of "Be quiet"--a response to an event of some sort, usualy noisiness.
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W.T.Carl



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do I get the impression that the original poster is a young Canadian?
The young student may be be ethnocentric, but to label her as being "a racist in training" shows a high degree of intolerance of the opinons of others. If you don't like Korean attitudes, GO BACK TO CANADA AND STARVE.
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Qinella



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I think "shut up" would be better equated with the Korean phrase 시끄러워.

I'll state for the record again that I realize my action was inappropriate. I wasn't coming here to try to find people to tell me I did nothing wrong. There's been a good discussion of the severity of this term and its place in the classroom, which I've enjoyed reading.

Today I had that class again. My first matter of business was to apologize to the student. In order to make a sincere apology, one must state nothing else. Simply explain you are sorry, and add no buts to it. So, I did that. I believe adults should not be too proud to apologize to children.

After that, I had a talk with the girl as to why she said what she'd said. I really wanted to know why she's nervous around me just because of my appareance. Here was her response:

"I don't like waygookin."

Classic. I asked her who'd taught her to dislike foreigners, and if she'd heard it from her parents. Nope.

"I teach myself."

Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. I didn't want to press the issue too much, so I closed it by asking how she'd feel if she moved to another country and the people there told her they don't like her because she's Korean. I saw the look in her eye, and it didn't match her answer.

"That's okay."

I moved on to the next issue, which was the other two girls in class and why they were allegedly nervous around me. The newest child said she wasn't nervous at all. No problems. The previous girl nudged her, a bit incredulously. She's trying to influence her to think badly about me, but the new girl looks to be confident and strong-willed. Not easily steamrolled.

Then I asked the other girl in class, who has acted a nervous around me since she started a few weeks ago. She said she is nervous around me, and the reason why:

"You are a boy."

Man, my heart melted. That is too cute. She said she's nervous around our director, too, for the same reason. We're both "old boys", as she put it.

As for the little racist girl, I'm not sure what action to take. I try to imagine if I were a minority in the US or some similar nation, and had a student at a private institution tell me they dislike me because of my race. Would I just let it blow over like it's all good? Or would I be on the horn with the parents telling them they need to raise their child properly? I could easily muscle this girl out of the hagwon.

My other perspective is that I can just let it go, and as long as she isn't disruptive in class (which she's not), simply do my best to form a good impression of foreigners in her mind.

Parts of me lean toward both of these options, really.

Thanks for listening.
Q.
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Qinella



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.T.Carl wrote:
Why do I get the impression that the original poster is a young Canadian?
The young student may be be ethnocentric, but to label her as being "a racist in training" shows a high degree of intolerance of the opinons of others. If you don't like Korean attitudes, GO BACK TO CANADA AND STARVE.

Why do I get the impression that you'd be a boring party guest?

If I didn't make it clear in my above post, at no time did I tell my student that her beliefs were wrong. In fact, I even smiled as she was explaining to me so she'd feel comfortable to express her feelings. She is allowed to believe what she wants.

I'm American. I'm relatively young.

Is racist the wrong word? I don't think so. The child has stated in no uncertain terms that she does dislike me, and it's because I'm not Korean. Last I checked, Korean was a race.

Any other idiotic assumptions you'd like to smear on your foot before shoving it into your mouth?
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OiGirl



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Hoke-y-gun

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know, "shut up" is just not something I would EVER some out with in the classroom. I think the only case would be with a student I had a really close relationship with, if they were going on and on on a tangent and I wanted to get the class back on topic and repeated polite requests wouldn't work. It's just nothing I would ever say in anger. I guess good/Gestapo-like training in US public schools...
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OiGirl



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Hoke-y-gun

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Qinella wrote:
I've had teachers tell students to shut up when I was attending school.

Really?? When and where did you go to school??
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OiGirl



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Hoke-y-gun

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hyeon Een wrote:
John Henry wrote:
It's institutionalized by big business here. I'm honestly surprised there aren't bathrooms or bus seats "for waegooks only".


In the bathrooms at the bus terminal in Suncheon, Jeollanamdo is a stall with this sign:


=)

Damn...guess who hasn't peed in Suncheon in a while...
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OiGirl



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Hoke-y-gun

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

laogaiguk wrote:

If a kid starts calling a black kid "niger, niger, niger" or something of similar level, and immediate "Shut up!" will be used. Not "be quiet" or "stop". They aren't strong enough to let this kid know just how bad what they were saying was.

Really? I mean, you're just showing the kid that if he uses ugly language, you can ue ugly language too. And I have a pretty dramatic reaction to that kind of language...the student is IMMEDIATELY removed from the classroom, regardless of institutional policy, because otherwise I will kill them. But I would not speak to them in an angry or ugly manner...rather, something along the lines of "you are not fit to be with people...get out of my sight until we are both ready to talk about this."
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JongnoGuru



Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OiGirl wrote:
laogaiguk wrote:

If a kid starts calling a black kid "niger, niger, niger" or something of similar level, and immediate "Shut up!" will be used. Not "be quiet" or "stop". They aren't strong enough to let this kid know just how bad what they were saying was.

Really? I mean, you're just showing the kid that if he uses ugly language, you can ue ugly language too. And I have a pretty dramatic reaction to that kind of language...the student is IMMEDIATELY removed from the classroom, regardless of institutional policy, because otherwise I will kill them. But I would not speak to them in an angry or ugly manner...rather, something along the lines of "you are not fit to be with people...get out of my sight until we are both ready to talk about this."

Well, how about when children are just being noisy, disruptive, riotous, screaming, yelling? Can't you say "SHUT...UP!" in that situation?

And where (or rather when) did you go to school where teachers COULDN'T say "Shut up!" or words to that effect? I think if I had a child in a school where a teacher was being led around by the nose, like Qin is/was, for saying "shut up", I'd whisk my kid out of there immediately. And even faster if it was based on Qin's ethnicity/skin colour, while society and the school wasn't applying the same rule to teachers of another ethnicity/skin colour. OR I'd leave my kid in and make life hell for any administrators who supported such a policy.

I guess I'm pro-teacher/pro-education (which is ultimately pro-my child) and I'm anti-outofcontrol kids and their easily bruised, overindulged sense of entitlement.
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jajdude



Joined: 18 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sody wrote:
The worst thing about a hagwon is that you aren't a real teacher. You are in denial if you think otherwise.

As for the percentage of good hagwons, it is far less than 10%!! More like less than 5%!

Hagwons are evil!!!!!

Sody


I don't know. Are 95% of foreigners at hagwons unhappy with their jobs? Isn't there some teaching and learning going on? Aren't most kids who attend hogwans better at English than those who do not?

I'll agree that probably at least half of them are not good places to work. Again though, it depends.

I'm still not sure what constitues a "real teacher." I'm sure we all had some lousy teachers when we were kids or teenagers. Some of the people working at hagwons do a fine job even if they are not in great positions. Teaching may not be their thing. Any degree will do for a native speaker from one of the right countries. In other countries, there are some good teachers without degrees. They are just good with kids or whoever they teach. Then of course, there are lousy teachers with all the credentials.

==========================================

Only once, years ago, my first year in Korea, did I get in a little trouble for saying "shut up" to a kid. The kid was screaming in my ear and I got pissed off. I was told it was considered very rude in Korea to say "shut up."

I said it was rude to scream in someone's ear. Sometimes I have cursed in classes too, kicked or thrown stuff. Once in a while it's easy to get frustrated.
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JongnoGuru



Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jajdude wrote:

Only once, years ago, my first year in Korea, did I get in a little trouble for saying "shut up" to a kid. The kid was screaming in my ear and I got pissed off. I was told it was considered very rude in Korea to say "shut up."

Oh please. Korean teachers smack their students -- I've yet to meet at Korean who wasn't smacked -- yet foreign teachers get called on the carpet for saying "shut up". Well, I suppose it's best to let the "love stick" do the talking. When in Rome...
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jajdude



Joined: 18 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah. Strange is it not? We get told off for saying shut up and Korean teachers can smack the kid?

That puts it in perspective. Sort of. What kind of perspective? I have no idea. The kind of perspective you'd get mixing caffeine and nicotine with alcohol and valium?
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Cheonmunka



Joined: 04 Jun 2004

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look, this thread is getting boring. Why don't you all just shut up.
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gang ah jee



Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JongnoGuru wrote:
I've yet to meet at Korean who wasn't smacked


How do you work the conversation around to the topic? Wink

Anyway, I agree. Koreans have smacked and sworn at their children at certain times in certain circumstances, so to deny foreigners working at private language institutes (or indeed in any context) the right to do the same is pure racism.

cheonmunka wrote:
shut up.


Weren't you the one complaining about strong language in movies?
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Cheonmunka



Joined: 04 Jun 2004

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn my eyes. Did I just swear?
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