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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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 Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject: Holy Land Christians criticize Christian Zionists |
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JERUSALEM (Reuters) - The Vatican's envoy in the Holy Land and bishops from three other churches have launched a rare joint attack on the Christian Zionist movement, accusing it of promoting "racial exclusivity and perpetual war."
Christian Zionists form a growing part of the pro-Israel lobby in the United States, the Jewish state's main ally. They believe the return of Jews to the Holy Land and establishment of Israel are proof of God's promises to biblical patriarchs.
Churches in the Middle East often appear closer to the Palestinians, whose Christian minority makes up a substantial portion of their clergy in the region.
The "Jerusalem Declaration on Christian Zionism" was signed by Latin Patriarch Michel Sabbah, a Palestinian, and by bishops of the Episcopal, Evangelical Lutheran and Syrian Orthodox Churches in Jerusalem.
Many Christian Zionists are evangelical Protestants, and the declaration is a sign of a growing struggle between the groups.
"The Christian Zionist programme provides a world view where the Gospel is identified with the ideology of empire, colonialism and militarism," said the declaration, accusing Christian Zionists of hurting hopes for Middle East peace.
"We reject the teachings of Christian Zionism that facilitate and support these policies as they advance racial exclusivity and perpetual war," the declaration added.
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http://tinyurl.com/fzypg |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Holy Land Christians criticize Christian Zionists |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
"We reject the teachings of Christian Zionism that facilitate and support these policies as they advance racial exclusivity and perpetual war," the declaration added.
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As opposed to the teachings of Muhammad and the religion of peace. |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Those damned Christian suicide bombers! |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:52 am Post subject: Re: Holy Land Christians criticize Christian Zionists |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
"We reject the teachings of Christian Zionism that facilitate and support these policies as they advance racial exclusivity and perpetual war," the declaration added.
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Our church builds orphanages, schools and drinking wells for the Middle East and other places. We haven't successfully built a nuclear site, yet. But I am sure that's our next goal.  |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:58 am Post subject: |
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Israel First in Multiple Births; Moslem Births - Down
14:25 Aug 30, '06 / 6 Elul 5766
by Hillel Fendel
The Central Bureau of Statistics has found that some 100,000 Jewish babies were born in Israel in 2005, maintaining a steady rate, while some 34,000 Moslems were born - a drop of some 5.6%.
Other findings:
Israel is in first place in the world in multiple-baby births, largely because of the high rate of fertility treatments in the country. In 2003, 5% of all Jewish babies were born in multiple-baby births, compared with only 3.4% of Moslems. The number of such babies born in Israel has risen 29% over the past decade.
Moslem Births - Down
Of the 143,913 babies born in Israel in 2005, 70% were born to Jewish mothers, 24% - Moslem, 2% - Druze, and 1% - Christian Arab. The nearly 1% drop in births from the previous year was largly due to the 5.6% drop in Moslem births.
After remaining at a steady 4.6 or 4.7 births per Moslem woman for some 15 years, this rate has dropped sharply over the past five years to 4. The Jewish sector has remained steady for more than a decade at around 2.6-2.7 births per woman. The number of Druze births has dropped over the past 15 years from an average of 4.1 babies per woman to 2.6. The number of Christian births dropped from 2.7 per woman in 1996 to 2.2 last year.
Add increasing emigration of Arab Christians (a region-wide trend) to the ever-lower birthrates....and it hardly matters what they think about the current issues.
BTW, Israel (with or without its Arab population) has the highest birthrate of any OECD nation, by quite a bit at least....
am israel chai.... |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:05 am Post subject: |
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- The Vatican's envoy in the Holy Land and bishops from three other churches have launched a rare joint attack on the Christian Zionist movement, accusing it of promoting "racial exclusivity and perpetual war."
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I would like to raise two points of consideration for observers to consider.
No. 1 The catholic church at best is catching up with other ideas. They have a few points to answer for in the minds of the christians. I am not disagreeing that they have the right to point the finger at extremist ideas but they are about the last to call the pot black in the christian environment.
No. 2 If they are listening to people who support Hizbelloh over those who support non violence like I watched on CNN. Then I must argue those individuals don't speak for Christians generally. The main concept of christianity is "Love the Lord your God with all your mind, body and spirit and love your neighbor as yourself" (Generalised points). Jesus never preached "support your enemies enemy, as it looks good on TV".
Therefore I take it with a grain of salt. If you want to argue BUT you consider yourself an agnostic, athiest, communist, islamist, buddhist, Hindu, Shintoist, animist, Jewish, etc then please understand that I take your arguments with a pound of salt as you have already denied the basic fundamentals of christianity and we are discussing this from two different points of the compass. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:59 am Post subject: |
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On the other hand wrote:
"We reject the teachings of Christian Zionism that facilitate and support these policies as they advance racial exclusivity and perpetual war," the declaration added.
Our church builds orphanages, schools and drinking wells for the Middle East and other places. We haven't successfully built a nuclear site, yet. But I am sure that's our next goal. |
Does your church support the right of Israel to be the only nuclear-armed power in the region? If so, then whether or not they are actually building nuclear sites is rather immaterial. It's like saying "I support wife-beating", and then saying that you wish people would quit insinuatung that you yourself are a wife-beater.
And if your church doesn't take positions on those sorts of issues, then they are probably not one of the churches being criticized by the Palestinian and Jerusalem clergymen. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:36 am Post subject: |
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Who really cares what these clergy (tanslate inheritors of millenia of massive jew slaughter)
care about things in the region anyhow?????
Why don't they PROTEST Saudi Arabia's EXCLUSION of anything Christian before they attack Israel?
Screw 'em! |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:43 am Post subject: |
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and for the record...
the title of this thread, referencing "Holy Land Christians" is beyond bullshit.
Everything in the article deals with the Catholic Church....and its fellow travellers...
witness this absurdity...""The Christian Zionist programme provides a world view where the Gospel is identified with the ideology of empire, colonialism and militarism," said the declaration, accusing Christian Zionists of hurting hopes for Middle East peace."
Coming from Rome????!!!???? Seat of millenia of religious empire...
L...M....F...A....O....
Looks like both the Mullahs and the Clergy are worried about their next paycheck. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:00 am Post subject: |
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Who really cares what these clergy (tanslate inheritors of millenia of massive jew slaughter)
care about things in the region anyhow?????
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A little pointed but I see where you are coming from.
I must say that if you can't make or keep friends in a circle of enemies then its probably not best to ostracise too many potential friends.
Therefore Israel is still trying to keep its friends unlike some I could note.
Keep well Sub. and try to build supporters of your ideals, not destroy them. |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
and for the record...
the title of this thread, referencing "Holy Land Christians" is beyond *beep*.
Everything in the article deals with the Catholic Church....and its fellow travellers...
witness this absurdity...""The Christian Zionist programme provides a world view where the Gospel is identified with the ideology of empire, colonialism and militarism," said the declaration, accusing Christian Zionists of hurting hopes for Middle East peace."
Coming from Rome????!!!???? Seat of millenia of religious empire...
L...M....F...A....O....
Looks like both the Mullahs and the Clergy are worried about their next paycheck. |
I read the article as saying the statement came from christian leaders in the "holy land". The catholic church's envoy in the holy land. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
Does your church support the right of Israel to be the only nuclear-armed power in the region? If so, then whether or not they are actually building nuclear sites is rather immaterial. It's like saying "I support wife-beating", and then saying that you wish people would quit insinuatung that you yourself are a wife-beater.
And if your church doesn't take positions on those sorts of issues, then they are probably not one of the churches being criticized by the Palestinian and Jerusalem clergymen. |
The only thing that is going to save Israel is prayer and lots of it. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| Israel is eternal. It was there before the Christian/Islam Empires and it is there now. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
| Israel is eternal. It was there before the Christian/Islam Empires and it is there now. |
Yeah, but its going to have to go through hell before it reaches the promise land. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:49 am Post subject: |
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true enough...
Hell has been going on for 50, 60 70 years???? give or take a millenium or so.
All things considered.....Israel is doing quite well.
Every day that passes, a record number of people is speaking Hebrew and living in israel.
Am Israel Chai!!!!!![/b] |
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