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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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 Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject: Limit on kids |
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Chicago fire kills 6 kids
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Chicago fire kills 6 kids
Sep. 3, 2006. 10:51 AM
CHICAGO (AP) � Fire swept through a third-floor apartment on Chicago's
North Side early Sunday, killing six children and injuring their mother and three siblings, authorities said.
Candles may have caused the fire, officials said.
Fire Commissioner Raymond Orozco confirmed reports from neighbours that the family had been without electricity for at least a month and had been relying on candles for light.
"What do you say?" Orozco said. "There's nothing you can say. It's been the worst in a long time. The only thing you can do is just pray for these poor people."
The three-bedroom apartment in the Rogers Park neighbourhood had no smoke detectors, he said.
The fire broke out at about 12:20 a.m. on the third floor of a large apartment building, Fire Department spokesman Larry Langford said.
A passerby noticed smoke coming out of the apartment window and got help, said Cmdr. Will Knight.
"Then the mother came running out with one child in her arms, screaming to the neighbours that there were other children inside," Knight said.
"They asked her how many, and she said eight."
A neighbourhood man rescued one child after running up three flights of stairs into the apartment, witnesses said.
When firefighters arrived, they saw a child at a third-floor window, Langford said. That child was rescued by ladder.
Other firefighters went up the stairwell and found the children who died huddled in the apartment's front room, not far from where the fire is believed to have started, Langford said.
Five of the dead were identified by the Cook County medical examiner's office as Natalie Ramirez, 16; Eric Ramirez, 12; Suzette Ramirez, 10; Idaly Ramirez, 6; and Kevin Ramirez, 3. Another girl remained unidentified.
Four children were dead at the scene, officials said. Firefighters tried to resuscitate the victims on the street, then took them to hospitals.
The mother and one child were in stable condition at the same hospital, a nursing supervisor said.
Another child was dead on arrival at a different hospital, and a third child taken to that hospital died shortly after being transferred to the University of Chicago Hospitals, officials said.
10:39ET 03-09-06 |
This is horrid and I feel for the mother, I wanted to say this first.
But who has 9 kids nowadays, especially when you can't afford electricity! It may seem like I am picking on the mother, but this is a very valid problem. That should really be illegal. I don't like the idea of forcing people to stop having children, but... (I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT PHYSICALLY FORCING, BUT BY LAW, WHICH WOULD BE HARD TO ENFORCE, I KNOW). |
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periwinkle
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I doubt they were all her kids. Possible, but I doubt it. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| periwinkle wrote: |
| I doubt they were all her kids. Possible, but I doubt it. |
I thought so too, so I looked hard at the article. They all have the same last name (I know, could be cousins, etc.) but this did it for me...
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| killing six children and injuring their mother and three siblings, authorities said. |
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periwinkle
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| periwinkle wrote: |
| I doubt they were all her kids. Possible, but I doubt it. |
I thought so too, so I looked hard at the article. They all have the same last name (I know, could be cousins, etc.) but this did it for me...
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| killing six children and injuring their mother and three siblings, authorities said. |
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Ah, yes~ serves me right for skimming. Well, I'm figuring they are Catholics, judging from their last names. Has the church changed its stance on birth control (I haven't studied Canon law lately^^)? Also, the mother could be an immigrant who didn't have much access to birth control. Then again, maybe she just wanted a big family!! Hell, I'd like a big family, too, but unless I win the lottery (which will never happen, 'cuz I don't play, even though I keep getting e-mail notices that I have won the lottery in strange, far-off countries...), I can't afford it.
Can you imagine the cost of sending 9 kids to college (in the US)? Half a mil at least, figuring in all the expenses~ |
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billybrobby
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| The sentiment that "there ought to be a law" continues to a great generator of terrible, terrible ideas. |
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Novernae
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| billybrobby wrote: |
| The sentiment that "there ought to be a law" continues to a great generator of terrible, terrible ideas. |
Well you need some sort of thing to counteract the backwater catholic laws that made this happen in the first place.
An no, periwinkle, they haven't changed the law and I doubt the new pope will be likely to. |
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tzechuk
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| This is very sad. Very sad indeed. |
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periwinkle
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Novernae wrote: |
| billybrobby wrote: |
| The sentiment that "there ought to be a law" continues to a great generator of terrible, terrible ideas. |
Well you need some sort of thing to counteract the backwater catholic laws that made this happen in the first place.
An no, periwinkle, they haven't changed the law and I doubt the new pope will be likely to. |
Yeah, I googled it. Too bad the church doesn't provide assistance to large, poor families  . Sorry, don't mean to sidetrack.... |
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riley
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: where creditors can find me
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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Do you think it's easier for people to practice birth control if they're poor? How much would it cost for her to buy birth control pills? How well educated has she been about birth control use? How much control does she feel she has over her body?
Honestly, I'm a little annoyed that people started mentioning catholics instead of thinking for a moment. Do you honestly think only Catholics are the ones who have big families? Geez, use your damn brain. |
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seoulsucker
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: The Land of the Hesitant Cutoff
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| riley wrote: |
| How much would it cost for her to buy birth control pills? How much control does she feel she has over her body? |
Apparently, she has no control over her body if she's popping out kids she can't take care of.
If she has 9 kids she can't feed, I feel that state/local government has the right to step in. How much would it cost for the state to provide education and birth control for her? Probably less than the cost of providing gub'ment checks to feed her 10th, 11th, and 12th consecutive kids from different fathers. |
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Novernae
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| riley wrote: |
Do you think it's easier for people to practice birth control if they're poor? How much would it cost for her to buy birth control pills? How well educated has she been about birth control use? How much control does she feel she has over her body?
Honestly, I'm a little annoyed that people started mentioning catholics instead of thinking for a moment. Do you honestly think only Catholics are the ones who have big families? Geez, use your damn brain. |
Of course Catholics aren't the only ones with big families, who said they were? What about my post made you think that I wasn't using my brain?
And who would ever possibly think that anyone could think that birth control is easier for the poor (except the IMF and its sister organisations of course)?
Just to show you how a brain might possibly associate this problem with Catholicism, I'll show you my train of thought.
1) The family's name was Ramirez, which is definately Spanish in root, which 'probably' makes this family Latin American.
2) Statistically, Latin American's are a majoritarily Catholics.
3)It is also true that Catholics are told they will go to hell if they use birth control.
4) Generally, poor people are less educated (in the large majority of cases through no fault og their own).
5) Less educated people are more likely to fall for the trappings of the medievil doctrine of Catholicism (and all other religions)
6) Having lived in Latin America for a few years I can say that many of them are blind followers of their faith, ergo, they would believe that birth control would send them directly to hell and even if they did somehow find the means, they wouldn't spend it on birth control.
7) Imigrant and/or minority communities, especially one as large as the Latino population in the US, are very good at holding on to their roots and sense of community.
Does this make it any more clear how one might possibly use their brain to make an association between a huge family in the US by the name of Ramirez and Catholic dogma? |
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jaderedux
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Lurking outside Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| seoulsucker wrote: |
| riley wrote: |
| How much would it cost for her to buy birth control pills? How much control does she feel she has over her body? |
Apparently, she has no control over her body if she's popping out kids she can't take care of.
If she has 9 kids she can't feed, I feel that state/local government has the right to step in. How much would it cost for the state to provide education and birth control for her? Probably less than the cost of providing gub'ment checks to feed her 10th, 11th, and 12th consecutive kids from different fathers. |
Thanks to the pressure of neo-cons free family planning is almost non-existent. Birth control pills were handed out free after a free pap and condoms were always free. All of that has been mostly stopped. So the state can't just "jump" in.
As for religious affilation none of us know this so should not rush to judgement.
Jade |
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princess
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: soul of Asia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| China has the right idea. You have 1 child or else, get fined, etc. I don't plan on marrying a Catholic either. hehehe Why anyone would want to bring so many kids into a world like this is beyond me. Kids who are babies now will have no future. No jobs, no opportunities. They will be the generation that NEVER leaves the nest. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| riley wrote: |
Honestly, I'm a little annoyed that people started mentioning catholics instead of thinking for a moment. Do you honestly think only Catholics are the ones who have big families? Geez, use your damn brain. |
I don't feel for you. I didn't really want to turn this into a Catholic thread, so I didnt' mention it. But to be honest, with the Spanish last name and the size of the family, it was pretty obvious. You are right that not all are Catholic, heck not even most, but the most obvious conclusion (and as Huffdaddy showed) was that they were Catholic. |
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