Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Rockwell Bergstrom]

With all the talk about how "unqualified" we all these days I was just wondering how "qualified" we actually all are.

[ttompatz]

[Milwaukiedave]

Technically I could mark a few diffrent boxes. What choice does a person have if they have a bachelors, masters and TESOL certificate?

[PRagic]

Ph.D.

Come on...if someone has their MA, then they have their BA. Certificates aren't really worth the paper they're written on, unless you have your CELTA/DELTA, which should be on the list.

[PRagic]

My bad...CELTA/DELTA are on the list. Cheers....

[Rockwell Bergstrom]

Sorry, forgot the M.Ed.

Want to add it but it doesn't seem like I can edit the poll.

[laogaiguk]

Wouldn't have mattered, you can only add 10 options anyways. I could program a better poll drunk, and I am not kidding.

[vox]

[laogaiguk]

[lastat06513]

My wife (or should I say, soon to be "ex-wife") would always answer my questions with a question....which bugged the hell out of me....

Anyway, I will do the same; "What is 'qualified'"?

What is sad about the ESL industry in Korea and other parts of the world is that a person getting off the boat with a degree in "basket weaving" can call themselves a teacher. And Koreans would be astounded by the simple fact; "Wow! He can speak English....".......ok, so?

Thats the problem and an underlining one that has caused alot of what is going on here these days- alot of so-called "professionals" who come to Korea- with any degree and some with none or worse, fake- with the impression that they will make millions of won simply because they can go into the classroom and say "hi" in English.

I was like that when I began and to be honest, when I look back on it, I feel bitterly ashamed of myself-really!
It took alot of soul searching before I opened my mind to what makes a real teacher.

Sure, a person might have a degree. But it means that they suffered 3 to 4 years of their youth sitting in a boring lecture hall enduring an endless barrage of lectures and speeches. And the end outcome is that they have;

1. Accumulated a few thousand dollars (both American and Canadian) in debt.

2. Have a piece of paper that states that they are able to think

But are they?
I have mentioned this in many of my posts, I know of many people who have degrees who should never set foot in a classroom while their are some I know who can manage a class of 100 with only a high shool diploma or even a GED (thats a General Education Diploma for those that don't know).

I have seen some Masters in TESOL courses that don't prepare students for what they will see inside a classroom, just focusing on teaching theory that might not relate to what they will experience in Korea or on the experiences of people whose theories that might be outdated (believe me, education and methods of teaching change from generation to generation...).

I believe teaching, especially ESL, is mostly by "trial and error". It is up to the individual teacher to be open enough to accept criticism and possibly change their ways.
From what I have seen, some (and I stress the word SOME) very educated people try to stick to their ways of teacher, even when told that it doesn't work and when it jepoerdizes their job, some are quick to blame the boss or the director or even the students for not learning enough beforehand to understand what they were teaching

Case in point- last summer, I was teaching a month-long summer course at my last job and I was rotating classes with another teacher (keep in mind, I was regularly teaching business majors and the other teacher was from the English department). I was used to teaching my students by using language acquisition and listening-repeating method (as outlined by the head of MY department and because of the extremely low level of my students). Anyway, we were teaching my department's students, which were very very very low-level. I did well because I knew they would only understand basic mechanics and practice and usage while the other teacher used lecture followed by Q&A- which was way over my students' head (it was so bad that some students didn't want to do the rotation and only came to my class). I tried to tell the other teacher about the low level of my students, but she insisted on teaching them the same as teaching English majors- which ruined her class and even ruined the whole summer program....

My point is, it doesn't matter how qualified you are or how educated you are.
I am sorry to say, but in Korea or in many other places I have seen, you have to be flexible and open minded and be able to take criticism and make change.

For some, it would be a bitter pill to swallow, but in the end it might make you a better teacher.

[PRagic]

And you're teaching English? Ah, the power and allure of ESL, attracting programmers, lawyers, and professionals of all types into its web of mystery. Gluts in markets seem to do that. Back in the early 80s, programmers could name their own price; now, they are like accountants. Same goes for the law profession and the once-useful MBA - both now a virtual prerequisite for anything past entry level jobs in businessland. Programming? Still good to have as a hobby, though, as you could probably create some pretty kickin websites for your students (and other paying teachers)! Good on you.

[canuckistan]

B-Ed with TESL/History majors and 13 years of teaching ESL under my belt.

[PRagic]

lastat wrote, 'I believe teaching, especially ESL, is mostly by "trial and error". It is up to the individual teacher to be open enough to accept criticism and possibly change their ways. '

True, but what is the price of the entry ticket into the market? Say I want to start making money right out of high school. Should I be able to just say, 'Hey, I want to teach. I feel I can be open to criticism and adapt!' No. What about the people that go through the necessary training AND have the ability to be good teachers? Those that put in the time and earn at least the base qualifications should be given the opportunity for employment in proper educational institutions.

Now, if you are talking about hakwons, who cares? It's a business, and it's edutainment. Anyone with any degree can and should be able to apply for and try their hand at those jobs. They pretend to be an educational institution, and the 'basketweavers' can pretend to teach.

You make the point about learning by 'trial and error.' One of the reasons for obtaining a degree, no matter the field, is to avoid having to reinvent the wheel. That is another reason for hiring people with qualifications. Degrees are useful ways of weeding out those without long-term dedication to a particular field. No, they are not indicative of the ability to teach successfully, but, then again, what is? A demo lecture? Please. Bad teachers have a way of getting weeded out of organizations; they always do.

I guess in oposition to your arguement, I'm saying that I'm tired of all the people saying that 'experience counts for everything' and that they are 'highly dedicated teachers', yet never get around to advancing their academic standing or participating in developmental certificate programs. Yeah, sure buddy...you deserve to teach grad school with your BA because you were lucky enough to get a job at a university back during the economic crisis when everyone took off. Whatever.

You make some valid points, but you are headed down a slippery slope.

[lastat06513]

There is one thing I will say.

Contrary to popular belief, I have deep respect for people who stay in this profession for a long period of time.

When I was in Kuwait, I worked along side teachers who were teaching ESL for almost 20 to 30 years.
Those are the kind of people I like to work with and I am proud to know people who stay on as teachers long after some have gone off to do other jobs.

I, myself, intend to continue teaching, hopefully for the next 30 to 35 years, if possible....

Right now, I have 6 years under my belt and I honestly feel like a newbie

[gang ah jee]