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| Total Votes : 37 |
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re:cursive
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:01 am Post subject: |
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Long Pig.
I once had a romantic interest tell me that if she died she hoped I would eat her corpse.
"Put it to use" she said.
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numazawa
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: The Concrete Barnyard
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| re:cursive wrote: |
I once had a romantic interest tell me that if she died she hoped I would eat her corpse.
"Put it to use" she said.
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That raises an interesting question: Is necrophilia okay if you've got prior consent? |
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re:cursive
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| numazawa wrote: |
| re:cursive wrote: |
I once had a romantic interest tell me that if she died she hoped I would eat her corpse.
"Put it to use" she said.
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That raises an interesting question: Is necrophilia okay if you've got prior consent? |
Ha ha.
There's a thought I hadn't thought of. |
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red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Shapur,
Have a great weekend too. I do wonder about this part of what you said, though:
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The idea of human beings recycling their own dead for the protein and nutrients they contain is already contained in a lot of science fiction. The thought of it makes me a bit squeamish though and there is still the issue of diseases arising from prolonged consumption of genetic material too closely related to one's own species. I suppose in these imagined futures they do something to the DNA or something.
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How exactly does the DNA pose a health threat? I can see why it might be dangerous to consume the flesh of a person who might have been infected with bacteria and viruses known to affect humans, but wouldn't cooking tend to reduce the risk just as it does with rabies, avian flu, E. coli, etc.? Is there some other health hazard associated with cannibalism and not with the consumption of other animals? |
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Dan The Chainsawman
Joined: 05 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.eye-books.com/firstcontact/cannibals.jpg
It was at this moment Red Dog realizes her campaign to preach vegetarianism to the unwashed cannibals of Papua New Guinea might not go as smoothly as planned. |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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Dude. Don't be a dick. Lay off her.
Jesus Tapdancing Christ. |
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Dan The Chainsawman
Joined: 05 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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I would say "Eat Me", but given the nature of the thread I am afraid you might take it literally.
I wouldn't be so protective of Red Dog, I think she has a enough of a sense of humor to find the amusement in what I posted. If not, her loss.
Last edited by Dan The Chainsawman on Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Callous bastard. |
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Dan The Chainsawman
Joined: 05 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Very. |
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SuperFly
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: In the doghouse
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:00 am Post subject: |
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I saw a werewolf with a Chinese menu in his hand
Walking thru the streets of Soho in the rain
He was looking for the place called Lee Ho Fook's
Going to get himself a big dish of beef chow mein
If you hear his howling around the kitchen door
You better not let him in
Little old lady got mutilated last nite |
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Shapur
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:56 pm Post subject: Diseases arising from cannibalism. |
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| red dog wrote: |
Hi Shapur,
Have a great weekend too. I do wonder about this part of what you said, though:
| Quote: |
The idea of human beings recycling their own dead for the protein and nutrients they contain is already contained in a lot of science fiction. The thought of it makes me a bit squeamish though and there is still the issue of diseases arising from prolonged consumption of genetic material too closely related to one's own species. I suppose in these imagined futures they do something to the DNA or something.
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How exactly does the DNA pose a health threat? I can see why it might be dangerous to consume the flesh of a person who might have been infected with bacteria and viruses known to affect humans, but wouldn't cooking tend to reduce the risk just as it does with rabies, avian flu, E. coli, etc.? Is there some other health hazard associated with cannibalism and not with the consumption of other animals? |
Hi Red Dog,
There is a family of diseases called �Prions� which are spread in many ways, but are absolutely virulent when spread by consumption of infected material from the same species.
Cooking or processing the material does not reduce the risk of infection.
ALL prion diseases are universally fatal and include such diseases as �Scrapie�, Mad cow disease, Creutzfeld Jacob disease (the human version of mad cow disease) and the �Kuru� disease from Papua New Guinea which I mentioned earlier. These diseases destroy the brain and nervous system, among other things basically causing hollows to form in the brain making it look like a sponge and eventually calcifying the entire brain.
I have included a really interesting article from �Science Weekly� which explains the whole relationship vis a vis prion disease, cannibalism, genetics etc.
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Cannibalism Normal For Early Humans?
By John Roach
for National Geographic News
April 10, 2003
Summary: Genetic markers commonly found in modern humans all over the world could be evidence that our earliest ancestors were cannibals, according to new research. Scientists suggest that even today many of us carry a gene that evolved as protection against brain diseases that can be spread by eating human flesh.
The brain diseases, called prion diseases, are characterized by loss of coordination, dementia, paralysis, and eventually death. Modern examples include Creutzfeld Jacob disease and kuru in humans, and mad cow disease, or bovine spongiform encephalopathy, in animals.
Full Story:
Fried human, barbecued human, broiled human, raw human�were these items on the menu of the day for our prehistoric ancestors? Quite possibly, according to genetic researchers.
Scientists from England, Australia, and Papua New Guinea say that cannibalism is the most likely explanation for their discovery that genes protecting against brain diseases that can be contracted by eating contaminated flesh have long been spread throughout the world.
A growing body of evidence, such as piles of human bones with clear signs of human butchery, suggests cannibalism was widespread among ancient cultures. The discovery of this genetic resistance, which shows signs of having spread as a result of natural selection, supports the physical evidence for cannibalism, say the scientists.
"We don't in fact know that all populations did select. The selection may have occurred during the evolution of modern humans before they spread around the world," said Simon Mead, a co-author of the study from the Medical Research Center with University College, London.
The research is published in the April 11 issue of the journal Science.
Prion Disease
The brain diseases, called prion diseases, are characterized by loss of coordination, dementia, paralysis, and eventually death. Modern examples include Creutzfeld Jacob disease and kuru in humans and mad cow disease, or bovine spongiform encephalopathy, in animals.
The diseases are caused by mishappen molecules that clump together and accumulate in brain tissue. These molecules, called prion proteins, normally reside on the surface of brain cells, though their function is unknown.
Scientists believe the mishappen prion proteins somehow cause normal prions to form incorrectly, making it easy for them to clump together. These clumps cause the formation of small cavities in the brain similar to holes in a sponge.
Cannibalism Normal For Early Humans?
<< Back to Page 1 Page 2 of 2
Prion diseases are thought to be spread by eating the flesh of contaminated humans and animals in addition to being passed on from one generation to the next through genetic inheritance.
In an earlier study, members of the research team found that humans with one normal copy and one mutated copy of the prion protein were somehow protected against prion diseases, said Mead.
This mutation, or "polymorphism," is found at a certain spot in the prion gene and is known as M129V. Among the Japanese and certain populations on the Indian subcontinent and East Asia, a similar polymorphism called E219K also shows resistance to prion diseases.
Tim White, a paleoanthropologist at the University of California at Berkeley, who is an expert on the study of human cannibalism, said that the genetic link to cannibalism "is permissible given the wide body of evidence for prehistoric human cannibalism."
Fore and Kuru
Mead and colleagues began their investigation by looking at the Fore, an isolated indigenous people who live in the mountains of Papua New Guinea. The Fore, according to oral history, had a custom of consuming their dead at mortuary feasts.
The tradition is believed to have begun at the end of the 19th century and persisted until Western settlers abolished the practice in the 1950s. Men ate the best meat, the muscle, while women and children munched the brain.
From approximately 1920 through the 1960s an epidemic of the prion disease kuru swept through the Fore, killing upwards of 200 people a year. One symptom of infection was uncontrollable laughter, which gave the affliction the nickname "laughing disease."
Women and children were most vulnerable to the disease because they ate the most contaminated parts of the body�the brains. The scientists report that kuru has not been found in any Fore born after the late 1950s.
Mead and colleagues studied Fore women who had participated in the mortuary feasts and found that 23 out of the 30 women they tested had one normal copy of the prion gene and one with the M129V polymorphism, suggesting that those who survived the kuru epidemic had a genetic resistance to the disease.
The researchers then sequenced and analyzed the prion protein gene in more than 2,000 chromosome samples selected to represent worldwide genetic diversity. They found either the M129K or E219K polymorphism in every population.
Based on additional comparisons across cultures and with DNA from chimpanzees, Mead and colleagues estimate the polymorphisms arose more than 500,000 years ago, suggesting that prion diseases were widespread in early human history. The cause of these diseases is unknown, but the researchers suggest cannibalism as a likely candidate.
"That's just one logical possibility," said Mead. "We know that the Fore practiced cannibalism and had a strong selection pressure in their lifetime. There is no evidence to support an alternative conclusion such as resistance to infectious disease."
Cannibalism Debate
The notion that prehistoric human cultures were cannibalistic, however, has its skeptics. Among them is William Arens, an anthropologist at Stony Brook University in New York who argued against the practice in his 1979 book The Man Eating Myth and continues to stand by his argument.
"There is limited evidence for the possibility of cannibalism in prehistoric times," he said. "It is two or three instances and all suggest they were isolated cannibalism, if it took place at all."
Arens says that the evidence for cannibalism is likely related to isolated starvation situations similar to the Donner Party, whose members spent the winter of 1846-47 in North America's Sierra Nevada and ate the dead in order to survive.
Additionally, Arens says that no anthropologists have witnessed cannibalism, not even the anthropologists who report its relatively recent practice among the Fore in Papua New Guinea. From an evolutionary standpoint, he is not surprised at the lack of evidence.
"You would think in terms of evolution that if people ate each other we wouldn't be around," he said. "It's not a good survival strategy, not a way for a species to proceed."
White, who in 1992 published evidence for cannibalism 800 years ago in southwest Colorado in the book Prehistoric Cannibalism at Mancos, refutes Arens' suggestion that cannibalism was not widespread.
"I think that whereas his politically correct devil's advocate position might have been tenable when he published his book, the burgeoning body of evidence for past cannibalism makes it untenable today," said White. |
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red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the link ... of course I knew mad cow and CJD were prion diseases, but I never realized these diseases were more common among cannibals and it's still not totally clear to me why they would be. I think in today's society, we're all basically at risk from prions unless we're super-strict about avoiding any place where cow products are present, and even then I'm not so sure ... anyway, the article seems to indicate that there isn't such a sharp "natural" line between cannibalism and other forms of meat-eating, as others have stated. |
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