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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong
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 Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:05 am Post subject: The battle for Guantanamo |
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I thought this was an interesting read. The article is from the International Herald Tribune.
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The battle for Guant�namo
By Tim Golden The New York Times
Published: September 13, 2006
1. A Warning From Shaker Aamer
Col. Mike Bumgarner took over as the warden of Guant�namo Bay in April 2005. He had been hoping to be sent to Iraq; among senior officers of the Army's military police corps, the job of commanding guards at the American detention camp in Cuba was considered not particularly challenging and somewhat risky to a career. He figured it would mean spending at least a year away from his family, managing the petty insurgencies of hundreds of angry, accused terrorists.
"Is this what I went to bed at night thinking about?" he would ask nearly a year later, as he whacked at mosquitoes on a muggy Cuban night. "No."
Bumgarner, then 45, received his marching orders from the overall commander of the military's joint task force at Guant�namo, Maj. Gen. Jay W. Hood. A few weeks earlier, General Hood dispatched the previous head of his guard operation and two other senior officers for fraternizing with female subordinates. He was known as a flinty, detail-oriented boss with low tolerance for bad judgment, and his instructions to the colonel were brief: He should keep the detainees and his guards safe, Bumgarner says Hood told him. He should prevent any escapes. He should also study the Third Geneva Convention, on the treatment of prisoners of war, and begin thinking about how to move Guant�namo more into line with its rules.
It had been three years since President Bush declared that the United States would not be bound by any part of the Geneva treaties in dealing with prisoners in the fight against terrorism. He ordered that American forces treat captives in ways "consistent" with the conventions but hadn't explained what that meant. Now, Bumgarner thought, the mandate seemed to be shifting a little. He was being asked to get more specific. |
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/09/13/america/web.0913gitmo.php |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:58 am Post subject: |
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I think the real battle for Guantanamo is underway......Bush transgressing every American notion and in this silent war, not a peep from the average American who should be agast.
What's next? Now he wants new legislation to bypass the Geneva Conventions. What's next? Stripping the courts of any legitimacy. What's next after taking away any legal means of these "prisoners" and also taking away any power of the courts to review their govt??????
Judge , jury and executioner, silent executioner.......say it ain't so. (and there have been dozens of deaths "murders", commited by American military guards, interrogators, soldiers...). The next Bush bill is crazy and what is even more crazy is he will get his way.......
The battle SHOULD be against this. Yet more attention is paid to the price of SUVs than this. And let's note how once again Bush goes, "my way or the highway", disregarding what a good president MUST do -- listen to those around him...
Even more egregious is the White House behind the scenes, strong arming members of the armed services to write a letter and petition congress.........ahhhhh, is this not totalitarianism when the head of state winks and all those nod???
This is the real battle. For an America that is about laws and not of men, to paraphrase Judge Marshall of many years ago......
DD |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| Al Qaeda fighters are not POWs. They are war criminals |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| Al Qaeda fighters are not POWs. They are war criminals |
How exactly does one attain the status of "war criminal"? Do you become a war criminal as soon as you get arrested for being one, or(as in the case of regular criminals) do you have to be convicted in some sort of a trial? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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| Al Qaeda fighters are not POWs. They are war criminals |
How exactly does one attain the status of "war criminal"? Do you become a war criminal as soon as you get arrested for being one, or(as in the case of regular criminals) do you have to be convicted in some sort of a trial? |
what they fight for. They are not soliders. Being a member of Al Qadea is like being a member of the SS. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:19 am Post subject: |
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what they fight for. They are not soliders. Being a member of Al Qadea is like being a member of the SS.
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My point was how do you know they are members of Al Qaeda(ie. war criminals) prior to having a trial? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| well sometimes you would know. Khalid Sheik Mohammad hasn't had a trial yet. Wanna bet he isn't innocent? |
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Sleepy in Seoul
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: Going in ever decreasing circles until I eventually disappear up my own fundament - in NZ
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| well sometimes you would know. Khalid Sheik Mohammad hasn't had a trial yet. Wanna bet he isn't innocent? |
I'm amazed that you have not been able to make a living as a clairvoyant with such omniscient abilities. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| Sleepy in Seoul wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| well sometimes you would know. Khalid Sheik Mohammad hasn't had a trial yet. Wanna bet he isn't innocent? |
I'm amazed that you have not been able to make a living as a clairvoyant with such omniscient abilities. |
Sorry there is a good possibility that Kahlid Sheik Mohammad is probably innocent just like Bin Laden.  |
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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Did any of you ACTUALLY read this article or are you just happy going about your psycho babble? |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd like to know if Col. Mike Bumgarner is related to Stephanie Bumgarner. Stephanie serves here in Korea, where she is a helicopter pilot. She regularly appears on AFN shorts such as 'Why I serve' and ' Korea: The assignment of choice.' |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| Did any of you ACTUALLY read this article or are you just happy going about your psycho babble? |
Joo is just a joo box, same babble over and over.....I"ve been tired lately and reading Henry Miller. Soon I'll take up the sword again and put him and his alter (but more polite and white bread) ego back where they belong. In shame.
I think the point is that this slippery slope is becoming very sloppy. The incline enormous and still, life is as usual. That is the worst of politicians of all stripes and countries.....taking advantage of people's emotion to engross their power and macho marching beats.....When we need statesmen , we get rhetoric and drum beats. Makes me want to hide in a cave away from these monsters in their other cave.
I have always been pacifist but I agree to disagree with and have many good friends in the military. But even their own good efforts are going for naught given the agenda of those that stoke this fire of hate and won't enter the human world of dialogue, relations, morality, law.......
SAD. I can only be like Kafka who wrote in his diary on the day WWI broke out, only, "went for a walk." Do not partake in this shame....
Joo would probably be at home in Guatanamo amid the many Burger Kings, Subways and KFCs.....and they are there as well as JC Penny...amid the horror just a few short yards away....truly bizarre.
DD |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:46 am Post subject: |
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[quote="ddeubel"]
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| Did any of you ACTUALLY read this article or are you just happy going about your psycho babble? |
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| Joo is just a joo box, same babble over and over.....I"ve been tired lately and reading Henry Miller. Soon I'll take up the sword again and put him and his alter (but more polite and white bread) ego back where they belong. In shame. |
talk is cheap. You can refute anything you never have. cause you have no facts and you dont' know what you are talking about.
Khomeni is a fascist bigot ., Saddam was a fascist bigot , Bin Laden is a fascist bigot. Yes or No.
The problem is they don't want to give up their war. Simple as that.
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| Joo would probably be at home in Guatanamo amid the many Burger Kings, Subways and KFCs.....and they are there as well as JC Penny...amid the horror just a few short yards away....truly bizarre |
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Gitmo is better than most mideast prisons.
Why the prisoners even eat better there than they do on the battle field.
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| I have always been pacifist but I agree to disagree with and have many good friends in the military. But even their own good efforts are going for naught given the agenda of those that stoke this fire of hate and won't enter the human world of dialogue, relations, morality, law....... |
Bin laden followers aren't interested in talking they are interested in the Caliphate. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
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| Al Qaeda fighters are not POWs. They are war criminals |
How exactly does one attain the status of "war criminal"? Do you become a war criminal as soon as you get arrested for being one, or(as in the case of regular criminals) do you have to be convicted in some sort of a trial? |
what they fight for. They are not soliders. Being a member of Al Qadea is like being a member of the SS. |
But the SS fought in a war under the flag of Germany. Al Quaida is, or they would have us believe, a stateless entity. A terrorist group. (Not disagreeing with you that they are war criminals, but as long as the US doesn't release the information in its possession of who is funding the Taliban and Al Quaida (some say it's the Pakistani spy agency), saying they are war criminals isn't enough to keep them in jail without a trial.) |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
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| Did any of you ACTUALLY read this article or are you just happy going about your psycho babble? |
Joo is just a joo box, same babble over and over..... |
DD is just a DD box, same babble over and over.....
Man, that was easy. And, true. |
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