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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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 Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:00 am Post subject: |
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I'm watching it now. Just saw the Tora Bora segment, as well as the later airlift. This is treason.
EDIT: Hmm... created Sadam, created Bin Laden... It's a sick world we live in. Is there any virus so deadly as the combination of power, money and politics?
EDIT: So, the CIA creates the Taliban to fight the Soviets, then fights the Taliban when the snake turns, or, rather, stops taking orders. Along with OBL. All this was done via Pakistani intelligence. So, Dumbya, what happened to "...and those that harbor them"??? How and why did it become, "...and help them escape to those who created them"?
EDIT: Oh, dear lord... The head of Pakistani intelligence (ISI) ordered the sending of $100,000 to Atta via the Al Queda pay master... ...and how cozy are the Bush administration and the Pakistani gov't??
My god, fellow Americans, you must watch this movie.
EDIT: During the week of 9/11 this general was in the U.S. meeting to discuss arrangements/agreements with the US...
And in 1999 (I think) an undercover FBI operative met with an Abbas in NY who claimed to work with the ISI and stated that the towers were coming down...
EDIT: "...and if it wasn't for the [9/11] families, we wouldn't have anything, and that's very frightening."
"What we're left with after our journey is no answers, no accountability and I've wasted four years of my life, trying my damnedest, along with the other family members, to make sure this never happens again."
"...on the wall in his room, he.., it says, 'Knowledge is power'... ...I'm so pissed off at the American people, I'm so pissed off at this government, because of this cover-up..."
I love the ending: lost in the noise of mindless media coverage for mindless media consumers... |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:13 am Post subject: |
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Did the US create Al Qaeda?
Answer: NO
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| While the charges that the CIA was responsible for the rise of the Afghan Arabs might make good copy, they don't make good history. The truth is more complicated, tinged with varying shades of gray. The United States wanted to be able to deny that the CIA was funding the Afghan war, so its support was funneled through Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence agency (ISI). ISI in turn made the decisions about which Afghan factions to arm and train, tending to favor the most Islamist and pro-Pakistan. The Afghan Arabs generally fought alongside those factions, which is how the charge arose that they were creatures of the CIA. Former CIA official Milt Bearden, who ran the Agency's Afghan operation in the late 1980s, says, "The CIA did not recruit Arabs," as there was no need to do so. There were hundreds of thousands of Afghans all too willing to fight, and the Arabs who did come for jihad were "very disruptive . . . the Afghans thought they were a pain in the ass." Similar sentiments from Afghans who appreciated the money that flowed from the Gulf but did not appreciate the Arabs' holier-than-thou attempts to convert them to their ultra-purist version of Islam. ... There was simply no point in the CIA and the Afghan Arabs being in contact with each other. ... the Afghan Arabs functioned independently and had their own sources of funding. The CIA did not need the Afghan Arabs, and the Afghan Arabs did not need the CIA. So the notion that the Agency funded and trained the Afghan Arabs is, at best, misleading. The 'let's blame everything bad that happens on the CIA' school of thought vastly overestimates the Agency's powers, both for good and ill." [Holy War, Inc.: Inside the Secret World of Osama bin Laden (New York: The Free Press, 2001), pp. 64-66.] |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:10 am Post subject: |
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How is one not responsible when one hands over a ton of cash and says, "Just get it done?"
Don't bother answering, Joo. |
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Mastaoos69
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| Dude.. its clear Bin Laden was the fall guy when things turned sour. CIA made him from my understanding. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Mastaoos69 wrote: |
| Dude.. its clear Bin Laden was the fall guy when things turned sour. CIA made him from my understanding. |
Did the US create Al Qaeda?
Answer: NO
Quote:
While the charges that the CIA was responsible for the rise of the Afghan Arabs might make good copy, they don't make good history. The truth is more complicated, tinged with varying shades of gray. The United States wanted to be able to deny that the CIA was funding the Afghan war, so its support was funneled through Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence agency (ISI). ISI in turn made the decisions about which Afghan factions to arm and train, tending to favor the most Islamist and pro-Pakistan. The Afghan Arabs generally fought alongside those factions, which is how the charge arose that they were creatures of the CIA. Former CIA official Milt Bearden, who ran the Agency's Afghan operation in the late 1980s, says, "The CIA did not recruit Arabs," as there was no need to do so. There were hundreds of thousands of Afghans all too willing to fight, and the Arabs who did come for jihad were "very disruptive . . . the Afghans thought they were a pain in the ass." Similar sentiments from Afghans who appreciated the money that flowed from the Gulf but did not appreciate the Arabs' holier-than-thou attempts to convert them to their ultra-purist version of Islam. ... There was simply no point in the CIA and the Afghan Arabs being in contact with each other. ... the Afghan Arabs functioned independently and had their own sources of funding. The CIA did not need the Afghan Arabs, and the Afghan Arabs did not need the CIA. So the notion that the Agency funded and trained the Afghan Arabs is, at best, misleading. The 'let's blame everything bad that happens on the CIA' school of thought vastly overestimates the Agency's powers, both for good and ill." [Holy War, Inc.: Inside the Secret World of Osama bin Laden (New York: The Free Press, 2001), pp. 64-66.] |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
How is one not responsible when one hands over a ton of cash and says, "Just get it done?"
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Because we gave it to the Afghans and not the Arabs. Semantic difference along the lines of "what is 'is'?". Somehow, the same guy who says buying gasoline supports the terrorists thinks it's okay to send money to Afghan terrorists and weapons to Saddam. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
How is one not responsible when one hands over a ton of cash and says, "Just get it done?"
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Because we gave it to the Afghans and not the Arabs. Semantic difference along the lines of "what is 'is'?". Somehow, the same guy who says buying gasoline supports the terrorists thinks it's okay to send money to Afghan terrorists and weapons to Saddam. |
Well at the time they Afganistan was fighting the Soviets and Saddam was fighting Khomeni who was attacking the US.
Tell us which enemies of the US the terrorists who are funded by by now?
by the way where do the terorists get their money. From a bake sale? |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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The real question should be...
Why did the US allow most of Al-quaida to walk away from Tora Bora?
The rest doesn't matter much. |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
The real question should be...
Why did the US allow most of Al-quaida to walk away from Tora Bora?
The rest doesn't matter much. |
Incompetence? |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The United States wanted to be able to deny that the CIA was funding the Afghan war, so its support was funneled through Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence agency (ISI). ISI in turn made the decisions about which Afghan factions to arm and train, tending to favor the most Islamist and pro-Pakistan. The Afghan Arabs generally fought alongside those factions, which is how the charge arose that they were creatures of the CIA. |
Yeah....
Like how I sold my 4 semi-autos to Dylan Klebold's friend.... that doesn't mean I should shoulder any guilt right? |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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If you watch the part of the video about the conflict in Afghanistan you have to conclude that there was something other than "incompetence" at play.
Why also did the US allow thousands of Taliban to fly to safety in Pakistan?
Clearly, the current administration wants this war to continue for a long time. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| your video is a good source? |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
If you watch the part of the video about the conflict in Afghanistan you have to conclude that there was something other than "incompetence" at play.
Why also did the US allow thousands of Taliban to fly to safety in Pakistan?
Clearly, the current administration wants this war to continue for a long time. |
Hard to conclude anything else. Amazing, we want Bin Laden but now all we are doing is fighting the Taliban (not Al Queda) and Iraqi resistance? (Also not Al Queda, and yes, I know there are Al Queda in Iraq, but it has been firmly established that the great bulk of the fighting in Iraq is against Iraqis resisting what they see as occupation.) |
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