|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Would you describe yourself as a cultural relativist? |
| Yes |
|
20% |
[ 6 ] |
| No |
|
70% |
[ 21 ] |
| �That�s where I saw the Leprechaun. He tells me to burn things.� |
|
10% |
[ 3 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 30 |
|
| Author |
Message |
kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
|
 Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| laogaiguk wrote: |
Not quite on topic, but...
People should try to change what they think is wrong anywhere if they see injustice. Culture is not a valid excuse. We are all human, and I wish we would be invaded a la Independence Day to wake people up to this. THe major problem, is which morals are right??? |
When I read your first sentence, I thought about Islam. According to my father, a professor of history and altogether credible source on most things, Islam teaches that we are all originally Muslims. They don't use the word "convert" for a profession of Islamic faith: they use "revert." Some teach that North America needs to be converted to Islam.
Fundementalist Muslims are not the only ones who profess a willingness to sacrifice the rights of individuals in pursuit of the greater virtue. Afghanistan and Iraq are currently being ravaged and trampled for the sake of "democracy" and it's a worthy goal, but in this case at a horrific price.
Judging by some of the debate preceding me, the most widely acceptable answer to the question of "right conduct" is boiled down to "do no harm to others."
However, what's our responsibility when we see others hurt, oppressed, exploited? The Iraq war and the Jihad are good examples of how this can go terribly wrong, but there must be some criteria or justification for reaching out to another group/culture/nation... or is there? Does everyone *want* to be "liberated"? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kermo wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
Not quite on topic, but...
People should try to change what they think is wrong anywhere if they see injustice. Culture is not a valid excuse. We are all human, and I wish we would be invaded a la Independence Day to wake people up to this. THe major problem, is which morals are right??? |
When I read your first sentence, I thought about Islam. According to my father, a professor of history and altogether credible source on most things, Islam teaches that we are all originally Muslims. They don't use the word "convert" for a profession of Islamic faith: they use "revert." Some teach that North America needs to be converted to Islam.
Fundementalist Muslims are not the only ones who profess a willingness to sacrifice the rights of individuals in pursuit of the greater virtue. Afghanistan and Iraq are currently being ravaged and trampled for the sake of "democracy" and it's a worthy goal, but in this case at a horrific price.
Judging by some of the debate preceding me, the most widely acceptable answer to the question of "right conduct" is boiled down to "do no harm to others."
However, what's our responsibility when we see others hurt, oppressed, exploited? The Iraq war and the Jihad are good examples of how this can go terribly wrong, but there must be some criteria or justification for reaching out to another group/culture/nation... or is there? Does everyone *want* to be "liberated"? |
It's been said that ignorant, uneducated farmers or toilet cleaners (etc etc) are some of the happiest people on the planet. People with all the opportunities are the least happiest, always reaching for more. I don't know if it is true or not, but it seems to be. Still, I think everyone wants to be liberated even if they don't know it, but again the problem is what does "liberation" mean  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kermo wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
Not quite on topic, but...
People should try to change what they think is wrong anywhere if they see injustice. Culture is not a valid excuse. We are all human, and I wish we would be invaded a la Independence Day to wake people up to this. THe major problem, is which morals are right??? |
When I read your first sentence, I thought about Islam. According to my father, a professor of history and altogether credible source on most things, Islam teaches that we are all originally Muslims. They don't use the word "convert" for a profession of Islamic faith: they use "revert." Some teach that North America needs to be converted to Islam.
Fundementalist Muslims are not the only ones who profess a willingness to sacrifice the rights of individuals in pursuit of the greater virtue. Afghanistan and Iraq are currently being ravaged and trampled for the sake of "democracy" and it's a worthy goal, but in this case at a horrific price.
Judging by some of the debate preceding me, the most widely acceptable answer to the question of "right conduct" is boiled down to "do no harm to others."
However, what's our responsibility when we see others hurt, oppressed, exploited? The Iraq war and the Jihad are good examples of how this can go terribly wrong, but there must be some criteria or justification for reaching out to another group/culture/nation... or is there? Does everyone *want* to be "liberated"? |
Especially in reference to the willingness to sacrifice for the greater good, please do keep in mind that basically every contemporary society has undergone some degree of this(usually a high degree) over the past 30 years. Now jump back 50, 100 and 200 years and if you really look close, the amount of suffering and strife everyone, even Canadians(and that's not a crack--you've enjoyed a very stable run relative to the rest of the world--all thanks to us, of course[that was a crack]), in either aggressor or civic conflict is staggering when you face it.
Perhaps the only absolute is that the world has never enjoyed a time of peace. And any conception that suggests it has is a myth of denial. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
ddeubel wrote:
I think we need only go so far as to say that -- we do not like pain/physical pain. So a universal and morally relative agreement would be that: do no harm. (or as the Christian would say, do unto others as you would want done unto yourself.). |
| Quote: |
| What if that person deserves harm for a harm they have inflicted on others? Or do you think no one can deserve it? |
I don't think you can ever "cure" the breaking of a moral law by breaking a moral law yourself.................not at all logical and besides all the other reasons, a very reason to be against the death penalty. It isn't logical or consistent.
| Quote: |
ddeubel wrote:
I say throw that part out. Just act with the intention of "do no harm to others" , as best you can. This is how I judge around the world, other countries, cultures. |
| Quote: |
| I agree (for legal systems anyway), but I want to add: ��unless they deserve it.� |
Well that means you are human, only human. Doesn't mean you aren't wrong by the way. That's the trouble with us, we can't but feel the need for revenge/ follow our nose in resentment. we are stoked by the base will to power which Nietzsche phrased coherently as revertissment....... We should all make an effort to gulp and avoid that "unless they deserve it" part. We should be consistent, as I stated above.
My own take on what makes a civil "world"....all being relative.
DD |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ddeubel wrote: |
I don't think you can ever "cure" the breaking of a moral law by breaking a moral law yourself.................not at all logical and besides all the other reasons, a very reason to be against the death penalty. It isn't logical or consistent.
| Quote: |
| I agree (for legal systems anyway), but I want to add: ��unless they deserve it.� |
Well that means you are human, only human. Doesn't mean you aren't wrong by the way. That's the trouble with us, we can't but feel the need for revenge/ follow our nose in resentment. we are stoked by the base will to power which Nietzsche phrased coherently as revertissment....... We should all make an effort to gulp and avoid that "unless they deserve it" part. We should be consistent, as I stated above.
My own take on what makes a civil "world"....all being relative.
DD |
I'm not talking about revenge, I'm talking about punishment. If you put someone in jail, that harms them. But so long as the jail is humane and their sentence proportional to the crime (e.g. no life sentences for petty theft), don't you think they deserve that harm? Does that break a moral law? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| cdninkorea wrote: |
| ddeubel wrote: |
I don't think you can ever "cure" the breaking of a moral law by breaking a moral law yourself.................not at all logical and besides all the other reasons, a very reason to be against the death penalty. It isn't logical or consistent.
| Quote: |
| I agree (for legal systems anyway), but I want to add: ��unless they deserve it.� |
Well that means you are human, only human. Doesn't mean you aren't wrong by the way. That's the trouble with us, we can't but feel the need for revenge/ follow our nose in resentment. we are stoked by the base will to power which Nietzsche phrased coherently as revertissment....... We should all make an effort to gulp and avoid that "unless they deserve it" part. We should be consistent, as I stated above.
My own take on what makes a civil "world"....all being relative.
DD |
I'm not talking about revenge, I'm talking about punishment. If you put someone in jail, that harms them. But so long as the jail is humane and their sentence proportional to the crime (e.g. no life sentences for petty theft), don't you think they deserve that harm? Does that break a moral law? |
In a perfect world, we wouldn't have any crime. In a closer to perfect world, we would have no jails and absolutely no revenge or punishment. There would be two solutions. Immediately try to diagnose and treat what the problem was and learn why it happened (for future reference) and make them a functional member of society again asap without even one second of punishment, or kill them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I will try to be more articulate |
You entirely failed in your goal.
Maybe it would help if you wrote the words "I'm not a Cultural Relativist" on a piece of paper and stuck it up on the wall in front of you. That might help keep your mind focused on your original point.
BTW, I wasn't really trying to be witty. I merely summarized your points and stated the result. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
