Korean Job Discussion Forums

[JustCruizin']

POLL: Who gets letters of recommendation ?

And are they worth anything ?

Not sure if I did the poll right.

[kimcheeking]

Who doesn't? Without a letter of recommendation how do you expect to get a good job? Anyone can work at Satans English Hogwon... but if you have a good recommendation you will probably be able to get a better position.

I got a university position with only a BA because of several letters of recommendations, good work ethics, & good lesson plans. I wouldn't hire anyone who couldn't give a reference....

[JustCruizin']

That's why I was asking.

Did you write it up yourself ? English or Korean, or both ? Did your director include his phone number ? Did you embellish ?

I'm thinking I should get one, flaky on the details, that's why I asked.

danka shein

[kimcheeking]

I got most of them in English, 2 written by myself but printed on company letterhead. I had one written in Korean, but my wife says that it is an amazing reference letter.

No embellishment, just the truth.

[waterbaby]

There's no way I could get a letter of reference from my last employer... Didn't even ask. Just got a letter saying from what dates I'd worked there. Even that was like pulling teeth...

And I wasn't the best employee - badgered my boss endlessly about my contract and the law (heaven forbid!) and even organised staff to walk out when he refused to abide by the contract... still, he did offer to renew my contract

However, things are much better at my current job and I'm sure I'll get (or write my very own) sweet letter of ref at the end of my current contract... but very doubtful as to how useful it will be.

I think ultimately it depends on who you want to get a job with next & what your long term goals are.

For ex. there's no way I'd use a reference from Korea for a job in Australia (my long term goal).

Now in Australia, you'd actually be hard pressed (for legal reasons) these days to get a written letter of reference from an emloyer - to put a former boss down as a telephone contact is fine... but I think the days of the "glowing reference = job" days are gone.

I know my last boss in Aust used to call refs, just to find out if the person had worked there and for the period of time they'd claimed on their resume. He didn't want to hear about the employee, figuring a person would only choose someone to be a reference if they knew they'd say good things about them. I agree with this perspective and if I was an employer, I'd pay no attention to references at all... but I'm not an employer... and I guess things are different here in the Big K.

Personally, I think written refs are a big *beep*... and if everyone in Korea is writing their own reference (which has been my experience) I'd say they're worth as the paper they're written on.

[JustCruizin']

Waterbaby,

My situation also, not sure if my last director would write a glowing letter, but think I should try anyway.

My last job in the US won't give recommendations. All they will do is confirm employment dates. People are discouraged to give personal rec's. Legal issues. Matter of policy.

But if you are going from one job in Korea to another, does the future enployer expect it ?

[waterbaby]

[katydid]

Does anyone else feel strange about writing their own letter of recommendation?
By doing that, I feel I could write I was Little Miss Awesome who completely turned around the university's English program just through the sheer grace of my presence, and who would really know? I wonder if anyone else given the wide berth of writing their own recommendation HAS done such a thing.
Last year, I balked at applying for a number of jobs when my director (who spoke English perfectly) said he would NOT write me one because he felt his ability was limited AND since most people who look over recommendations etc. are foreigners themselves, he would be embarrassed to write anything. My thinking at the time was "OK, just write the silly thing and have the OTHER foreign teacher proof it," but he wouldn't even try.
I suppose this year, or whenever I decide to look for a new place of employment, I will once again ask my new supervisor (a gyopo) to write something for me, but will have also prepared something about myself well in advance just in case he balks too, for whatever reason.

[peppermint]

I know a friend who renegotiated her contract with a school and put in a clause about getting a quart of Haagen Daz every week ( She knew the director didn't read any contract ever)

I got the head teacher to write my letter of reference, and had it in English since I swore I wouldn't work at another hagwon where the management weren't comfortable in English.

[crazylemongirl]

In my previous life I was an employer.

Thus I have written/checked references. I find writing them allows me to make use of the skills of writing something that says nothing while say everything if I don't like them, and 'this person rocks' in a somewhat more educated way.

On the using references side, my organisation was small and the personality and work ethic of any person involved of the organisation was important. Thus there would be a phone call to any verbal references. I would have a list of questions, but they would be ones very specific to our situation. One of the things I was always looking for is people who will go the distance without always having their hands out for money. So I would try and tease out instances of this at both the interview and from referees.

I was also on a number of hiring committees for my university. Their were always written references and I would often use what was said on these to ask some difficult questions of potential employees.

CLG

[waterbaby]

[crazylemongirl]

Ahhh, so I could use my talents for identifying salt of the earth people for good instead of evil... tempting. Do you think lucifer will pay better?

CLG

[Voyeur]

So far my two letters of reccomendation have been very helpful insofar as I keep getting unsolicited positive comments on them from recruiters and Hogwan owners. It won't bump you up in salary or allow you to beat out a much more qualified guy but as part of the overall presentation package they can be helpful if properly done IMO.

I wrote both of my letters of recommendation. And you have to be cheesier and more shamelessly over the top than you would ever dare be in the West. If your boss won't sign one then find someone else at work, even a co-worker provided they have SOME seniority, and get them to sign one and pretend they work with you. Change their title to something that could legitimately be said to be an alternate version of their's but that actually implies they are of much higher standing. Or find a family friend with serious credentials who won't mind covering for you if they e-mail. Put on yor resume that you worked for them for 1-2 years i.e. bald face lie so long as they are in on it.

Two Hints: Make sure to use two very differnt writinbg styles for your letters. And have them on the best letterhead and signed. Then scan them into JPEGs or PDF files and send that rather than the unsigned WORD file with no letterhead. Maybe I am totally off here. I have no claim to huge expertise but heh, couldn't hurt right?

[eamo]

Yeah, I've letters from both my last two jobs but I've a feeling supplying the phone numbers for my previous hagwons has had more effect.

I stay in touch with both my previous directors and they tell me how many people have phoned asking for a verbal reference. A lot!!!

[Bulsajo]

I've got around 10 or so, dating back to the 80's and from a variety of positions in a few different countries.

If you plan on travelling a lot and switching employers during your career[s] then they are essential. They've been invaluable to me in more ways than just the obvious 'show your next prospective employer'. Security clearance, proof of non-residency, reference to old names, numbers, and addresses when electronic data of same has been irretrievably lost...