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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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 Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:52 pm Post subject: Chavez Government Probes U.S. Funding |
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Chavez Government Probes U.S. Funding
By IAN JAMES, Associated Press Writer
Sat Aug 26, 11:43 AM ET
CARACAS, Venezuela - Of all the groups getting U.S. support in Venezuela, none has faced more scrutiny than Sumate, whose leaders have been called conspirators and "mercenaries" even though they insist they are simply promoting democracy.
President Hugo Chavez says he's convinced the U.S. is acting through Sumate to "take us down the path of destabilization" as he seeks re-election in December. Prosecutors have brought conspiracy charges against Sumate's leaders for their use of $31,000 from the U.S.-funded National Endowment for Democracy, ostensibly for voter education courses.
This month, an inquiry by the National Assembly concluded Sumate appears to have violated various other laws. Prosecutors are investigating whether to charge members with treason, tax evasion and other crimes, said Sumate leader Maria Corina Machado, who has met with President Bush at the White House and is a persistent irritant to Chavez.
She denies accusations by Chavistas that her group is essentially an opposition political party, and insists Sumate has broken no law.
"It's an organization that promotes and builds democracy," Machado said. "Those who do that are persecuted under governments that stop being democratic."
Chavez's allies argue Sumate persistently tries to unseat Chavez. It organized a recall referendum in 2004 that Chavez won and also is a vociferous critic of the government and the electoral system.
Sumate acknowledges getting some $102,120 for voter education programs since 2003 from the Washington-based NED, though it says it has not used any direct aid from the U.S. government. The U.S. State Department granted Sumate $300,000 last year to help review the voter rolls, but the group returned the money in July saying it could not obtain a complete database to analyze.
Other groups have received funds through the U.S. Agency for International Development, including Leadership and Vision, which obtained about $45,000 in 2003 to organize 10 seminars aimed at promoting dialogue among opposition and pro-government camps.
USAID � which hired the Maryland-based company Development Alternatives Inc. to administer the grants � has declined to identify many Venezuelan recipients, saying they could be intimidated or prosecuted.
The U.S. government also provides financial support to other U.S. groups working in Venezuela � such as $1.7 million for the International Republican Institute and $2.1 million for the National Democratic Institute since 2002. Both say they provide technical training to parties across the political spectrum and support training of independent electoral monitors.
Freedom House has obtained $1 million in U.S. funds since 2004 to help train Venezuelan human rights groups.
Venezuela may soon take a tougher stand. Attorney General Isaias Rodriguez recently said: "It's not lawful for a non-governmental organization to receive funds from a foreign state."
While Venezuelan law does not include a specific prohibition, the penal code prescribes prison terms for "any Venezuelan who solicits foreign intervention" in the country's political affairs, or receives a foreign state's money to be used to the "detriment" of the nation.
The National Assembly, now held entirely by Chavez allies after opposition parties boycotted the last election, is preparing to require any group receiving foreign support to register with the government, reveal its sources and submit to additional controls. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Chavez supports FARC and other groups trying that interfere with Latin American goverments. |
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dbee
Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Location: korea
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Good work chavez !
Any foreign government that tries to interfere in another countries democratic election should be stopped in their tracks. Especially in a country which has so recently experienced a CIA sponsored coup attempt.
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Chavez supports FARC and other groups trying that interfere with Latin American goverments.
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.... FARC and the colombian government are as bad as each other. Besides, it's one thing to say you support a cause, it's another to try to directly influence that cause by money or 'voter education courses'. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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Chavez kept up his criticism of Bush during a visit to Harlem on Thursday, calling the U.S. president "a sick man" who is unqualified for the job. Chavez also said he is expanding his heating-oil program to help low-income Americans.
During his speech before the U.N. General Assembly on Wednesday, Chavez launched into a caustic verbal attack of Bush that shocked diplomats and observers accustomed to the staid verbiage of international diplomacy. (Full story)
"The devil came here yesterday," Chavez said, referring to Bush, who addressed the world body during its annual meeting Tuesday. "And it smells of sulfur still today."
Chavez accused Bush of having spoken "as if he owned the world" when the U.S. president addressed the world body on Tuesday. (Watch Chavez headline a devil of a week at the U.N. -- 2:11)
"As the spokesman of imperialism, he came to share his nostrums to try to preserve the current pattern of domination, exploitation and pillage of the peoples of the world. An Alfred Hitchcock movie could use it as a scenario. I would even propose a title: 'The Devil's Recipe.' "
Bush's domestic foes fumed Thursday.
"If there's any criticism of President Bush, it should be restricted to Americans, whether they voted for him or not," Rangel said at a Washington news conference.
"I just want to make it abundantly clear to Hugo Chavez or any other president: Don't come to the United States and think, because we have problems with our president, that any foreigner can come to our country and not think that Americans do not feel offended when you offend our chief of state," Rangel said.
"Hugo Chavez abused the privilege that he had speaking at the United Nations," Pelosi said. "In doing so, in the manner which he characterized the president, he demeaned himself and demeaned Venezuela."
Bush administration officials dismissed the Chavez tirade.
"We're not going to address that sort of comic-strip approach to international affairs," John Bolton, the U.S. ambassador to the U.N., said shortly after Chavez spoke Wednesday.
Chavez's tirades against Bush have become common. In May, he accused Bush of committing genocide and said the U.S. president should be imprisoned by an international criminal court.
Chavez also alleged during the U.N. speech that the United States is planning, financing and setting in motion a coup to overthrow him. The U.S. has denied such accusations in the past.
As he was exiting the U.N. building in New York, Chavez told reporters that Bush is not a legitimate president because he "stole the elections."
"He is, therefore, a dictator," Chavez said.(Watch Chavez's bellicose comments -- :57)
During a stop in Harlem on Thursday, Chavez said he has no quarrel with the American people.
"We are friends of yours, and you are our friends," he said.
Underscoring his point, he announced he is expanding his heating-oil program to help impoverished Americans from 40 million gallons last year to 100 million gallons this year, and from 180,000 families to 459,000 families.
But in the heart of Rangel's congressional district, he blasted away at Bush for a second day.
"He walks like this cowboy John Wayne," said Chavez. "He doesn't have the slightest idea of politics. He got where he is because he is the son of his father. He was an alcoholic, an ex-alcoholic. He's a sick man, full of complexes, but very dangerous now because he has a lot of power."
Chavez, clad in a fire-engine-red shirt, called Bush a "menace" and a "threat against life on the planet."
In the United States, rich people are getting richer, and poor people are getting poorer, he said. "That's not a democracy; that's a tyranny."
After his address, a Chavez spokesman said the Secret Service and New York Police Department had barred the Venezuelan president from granting media interviews and cut his delegation's satellite feed -- claims the New York police and State Department denied.
NYPD Assistant Chief Michael Collins called the allegations "absolutely false" and said the Venezuelan delegation refused to comply with requirements on where to place their satellite dish.
"What they were doing was dangerous and illegal," he said. "We made every accommodation not to interfere with what was going on." |
Chavez is doing more probing it seems.........on the offensive.
I am no supporter of the man, his cult of Chavenistas nor his buddy buddy ness with long been useless Castro. BUT -- the American people need to be woken up and told some things and he did hit some good buttons (as well as some kooky ones ).
Good to see someone tell Americans like it is. How they aren't helping the poor , weak and miserable but rather engaging in conquest and hate. Also good to see him slam Bush for his domestic policies, he can't even help his own people, in America, can't keep his hands out of the pig trough enough to bring some help to ever desperate poor America.
He also says some bang on things about Bush the person....how simple is his view of the world and how he just doesn't know A THING about diplomacy.
I also get a laugh out of the always typical response of Americans in power -- blowing their horn of how free America is while on the other hand, saying he shouldn't come and tell them what to do and "criticism of America should rest with Americans" -- what cockamanny bs, and from educated, elected officials!
I get tired how , however stupid and wrong, it is always rally around the chief.........even when he has no clothes. This more than anything is what Americans got to get rid of (especially since more and more power is becoming of this nake, fat emperor).
whatever you think of the man, I am glad chavez is telling Americans a thing or two they can mull over between sitcoms and during commercial breaks..............
DD
PS> i don't doubt at all - Bush was complicit in trying to oust Chavez. Well documented how they went after Castro. This is how he operates, he only wants HIS democratically elected govt , in power anywhere...... |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| whatever you think of the man, I am glad chavez is telling Americans a thing or two they can mull over between sitcoms and during commercial breaks.............. |
Chavez is Latin America's Leftist version of Bush. Instead of telling everyone that 'You're either with us or against us,' his shtick is that someone is 'Either against the Americans or with them.'
He's not standing up to America, he's peddling anti-Americanism for political capital. There are plenty of other ways to stick it to America without engaging in vicious class warfare.
I liked it when he gave Maine, my home state, fuel oil for those who couldn't afford it. It showed he was very responsive to the concerns of Americans, fuel oil jumped 70% in one year. That was sticking it to America. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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If the U.S. govt, particularly the W. Bush Administration, is covertly funding political opposition in Venezuela for the express or implied purpose of destabilizing or overthrowing Chavez's govt, then Congress needs to examine these claims and consult the House and Senate Select Committees on Intelligence (Oversight) to see whether (a) there was a valid presidential "finding" on alleged operation(s) and (b) said oversight committees endorsed the finding.
And if these two conditions were met, then it would be a legal operation, at least according to the U.S. Constitution. (International law, particularly the OAS and its bedrock principle of non-intervention, might reach another conclusion, but that is a different point.)
If these two conditions were not met, then Congress needs to (a) determine whether alleged intervention actually occurred and (b) air this matter publicly.
But people like Chavez and his groupies on this board need to be just as prepared to accept that it is possible -- dare I say "likely"? -- that there has been no such intervention. If there had, given the intense polarization and partisan issues driving an oppositionist, investigative press, we would almost certainly have seen something besides Chavez's allegations by now.
This is difficult, I know, because Chavez and his groupies believe that any negative allegation about the United States must be true. And they do not require any evidence, thank you very much.
And, finally, since we are investigating each other anyway, I believe there were multiple allegations that Chavez covertly intervened in Bolivian and Peruvian elections (to name only the most recent two allegations). I believe Chavez has also hosted and/or met with Hamas and the Iranian govt and is dramatically increasing his military budget on the pretext of unsubstantiated and exaggerated allegations that the U.S. is preparing to invade Venezuela but, in reality, we do not know for certain what he is up to.
| dbee wrote: |
| Any foreign government that tries to interfere in another countries [sic] democratic election should be stopped in their tracks. |
Indeed, dbee.
But is Chavez prepared to declassify and publish his files and diplomatic correspondence to clear the air on these allegations? Is he prepared to put it all on the table and let the chips fall where they may in the court of international public opinion...?
What does he have to lose besides the moral high ground that he has claimed for himself, right...? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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By the way, this less-than-a-day-old message comes from a Venezuelan friend of mine who will remain anonymous -- a person who left Venezuela and lives in another Latin American nation, although he or she still has family there...
| A Venezuelan wrote: |
What are you teaching? Anything related to Latin American History? Talking about Latin America... I feel what we call in Spanish verg�enza ajena, that is, you feel embarrased for what someone else says or does. In this case, the so called "democratic president" of Venezuela. Did you see his speech at the UN today? I'm so embarrased to say I was born in the same country as that "being". For me he's not a person, he's closer to an ape. (I hope poor monkeys forgive me for making that comparison). I swear I don't hate the (let's bring him up to the category of "man"), I loathe him. Now I understand the hatred some detenidos desaparecidos feel for Pinochet. Let me tell you that I feel Chavez was an indirect culprit of the death of [deleted -- g.]. And I've learned of people whom I knew have dissapeared after having participated in protests against Chavez. The problem is that none of this is known because there's no freedom for the media in Venezuela to give news. All news is filtered and approved by the Government prior to being released to the public. Therefore, outside you see or hear practically nothing of what really happens there. Which is really a re-enactment of what happened...in Chile prior to the coup. And under the supervision of the same mentor: Fidel Castro, now more experienced than then.
I don't want to bore you, you have enough to read as it is. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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Gopher,
This time, for once, agree wholeheartedly. I am no groupie and would join any rally in support of his ouster..... The country is a mess and he can do all the idiot things in his nation -- only because of the oil money and the populist rhetoric. Under it all, lots of lives lived without possibility.......
but my point being -- even though he is an idiot, some truth does come out of his mouth, whatever the real intent......
DD |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
| ...but my point being -- even though he is an idiot, some truth does come out of his mouth, whatever the real intent... |
I agree, at least in theory.
As Polybius tells us...
| Polybius wrote: |
| We must...not shrink from accusing our friends or praising our enemies, nor need we be afraid of praising or blaming the same people at different times, since it is impossible that men who are engaged in public affairs should always be in the right, and unlikely that they should always be in the wrong [emphasis added]. |
People do not usually discuss politics this way, however. And, admittedly, both W. Bush and Chavez test Polybius's likelihoods here. This notwithstanding, I think his words still apply to them, just as they apply to all of us.
Do not interpret this as the beginning of a love-fest between us, though. You are way off base on your allegation that W. Bush was involved in a move to covertly oust Chavez. You only offer the analogy of JFK going after Castro and cite no direct evidence whatsoever to back up your claim? Is that how we make conclusions these days? |
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dbee
Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Location: korea
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:25 am Post subject: |
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1) Gopher goes to a bittorrent search engine
2) Gopher downloads 'The Revolution Will Not Be Televised', a documentary by an Irish film team who happened to be in Venezuala for the last CIA sponsored coup attempt to overthrow Chavez.
3) Gopher understands something about the political climate in Venezuala and posts comments that are more informed and less biased to his presuppositions.
There may have been a time when Americans could lecture the world on democracy and fair treatment of those who hold opposing views. Sadly that time has passed. Move on.
As for the 'venezualan' quote. It's common amongst the 'high blood' Spanish decendents of the Venezualan upper classes to label the natives monkeys and ape. A label which many racists in America will apply to African-Americans. Shame on you for even reprinting that diatribe.
Far from being a chavez groupie, I feel that chavez serves a purpose. Once chavez no longer serves that purpose, or attempts and unconstitutional power grab. I will support whoever it is that replaces him. So far so good in terms of Chavez's rule as far as I'm concerned. Personally, I don't see how the 'grandstanding' serves his cause, but it's a small price to pay for a leader who brings so much to the region.
He's a huge step in the right direction, for a continent that had become a CIA playground - destroying millions of lives in the last century.
Lets not even start to discuss state-run media. The American media is a joke. And the joke is on the American people. As for the people 'disappearing' - printing that on a message board is just a joke, if you don't have proof, and if the various human rights organizations (who by the way cite the US as a major human rights violator) don't pick up on it. Then, sorry - some racist piece of **** on a message board isn't going to convince me.
Get down off your 'high horse' Gopher, you're much too smart to believe the 'party line' on this issue ... |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| dbee wrote: |
1) Gopher goes to a bittorrent search engine
2) Gopher downloads... |
Have no idea what you are talking about. My information on U.S. foreign affairs derives from having read thousands of declassified memoranda and other documents in the diplomatic correspondence and the FRUS series. I have supplemented this by reading some (there is too much to read all of it) Congressional hearings such as those held by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and the Armed Forces Committee, like the Church Committee's Alleged Assassination Plots or the so-called Hinchey Report, for example.
Additionally, I have read much of the secondary literature, esp. Immerman, Gliejeses, Cullather, Ambrose, McCormick, LaFeber, and a host of others, including Paul E. Sigmund on Chile, all going back to William Appleman Williams and "the Wisconsin School" on U.S. foreign affairs, and others, like Gunder Frank, Wallerstein, Mintz, and Stern on the world-system and world affairs.
And, frankly, the kind of opinions that you and the other Chavez groupies post on U.S. foreign policy and Chavez tells me that most of you are simply taking Chavez's grandiose statements, any related hostile op-eds, and any antiEstablishment "documentary" you can find to support your preexisting Chavez-like "Yankee imperialism" ideology at face value. Not only that, your allegations are pure assertion. You offer no evidence, only others' assertions. In short, there is no substance to what you allege here.
So, say -- or should I say "assert?" -- what you will...
Last edited by Gopher on Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:18 am Post subject: |
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NEW YORK (CNN) -- The U.S. State Department apologized Saturday for the brief detention of Venezuelan Foreign Minister Nicolas Maduro by airport security in New York, but a senior White House official said Maduro brought it on himself.
Maduro was detained and released at New York's John F. Kennedy Airport after a run-in with security personnel, the foreign minister said.
"The State Department regrets this incident. The United States government apologized to Foreign Minister Maduro and the Venezuelan government," said State Department spokesman Gonzo Gallegos.
Maduro told CNN en Espa�ol that as he reached out to pick up an item that had been screened at a security checkpoint, security personnel told him he was prohibited from doing so.
Maduro identified himself as a Venezuela government official, but they nonetheless took him to a room for a more thorough screening, he said. Maduro claims he was kept in the room for 90 minutes.
When a State Department representative showed up, the official asked Maduro to spread his arms and legs for a search, but he refused, Maduro said, adding that the actions violated his international and diplomatic rights.
"We were detained illegally by the U.S. government," Maduro later told reporters. "They are responsible for this."
He called the U.S. government "racist" and "Nazi" and said the United States does not appreciate Latin American countries. He has filed a complaint with the United Nations, he said.
A senior White House official said airport officials did not know who Maduro was. The Venezuelan government never made arrangements through State Department Diplomatic Security, which is customary when a high-ranking foreign official is traveling, the official said.
Maduro, his wife and child arrived at the airport 30 minutes before their flight to Caracas via Miami, Florida, and paid for their tickets in cash, raising red flags with airport security, the official said.
Maduro was screened and asked to go through a second security check, and a disagreement ensued when the foreign minister refused and began making calls on his cell phone, the official said.
Only after his cell phone, travel documents and passport were confiscated did Maduro explain that he is a diplomat, the official said.
After the disagreement was resolved, Maduro was given permission to board his plane but opted instead to stay in New York, the White House official said.
"We apologize for it, but at the same time the Venezuelan mission working out of New York knows better," the official said. "There are procedures and processes to request airport courtesies for dignitaries. You don't come to the airport and buy a ticket with cash a half hour before the flight."
Assistant Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere Affairs Tom Shannon called Maduro to personally apologize for the incident, the official said.
The annual meeting of the U.N. General Assembly began Tuesday in New York.
At that meeting, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez lambasted U.S. President Bush during a speech, calling him "the devil."
The speech was condemned by U.S. officials, including some of Bush's normally most outspoken critics.
Informed of the incident, Chavez said on Venezuelan state television, "This is a provocation from Mr. Devil."
Maduro said the incident was retaliation for Chavez's speech. However, the White House official said there was no connection. |
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/23/fm.detained/index.html |
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dbee
Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Location: korea
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:53 am Post subject: |
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Oh gee sorry, my fault then. Anyone who has read extensively reports from the American congressional committee must have a great idea as to what is really going on in a country that all of America's intelligence agencies see as a threat.
Dude you can take Gunder Frank, Wallerstein, Mintz, and Stern and use them to prop up your bed for all I care. I'll believe a documentary film team from a Western nation who happened to be in Venezuala on other business and had the cameras by chance as the coup took place, over the ramblings of some guys in Washington, pouring their hearts over 'congressional committee' reports anyday.
The first thing the CIA tried to do when Chavez was voted president, was to smear the election campaign and to call it unfair. Despite the fact that it was them who had supported the unconstitutional coup in the first place. Unluckily for them on this occasion however, Jimmy Carter happened to be on the international electoral monitoring commission in Venezuala at the time - and declared the elections both 'free and fair'.
Dude ... congressional committee hearings ... ? pls ....  You might as well be asking Saddam Hussein to oversee a Kurdish cultural revival. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:14 am Post subject: |
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One thing that I feel I have been able to accomplish on this board is to at least fully bring out into the open those posters who are driven by extreme cynicism and bitter antiAmericanism, those who see the CIA hidden behind every tree, always acting in bad faith and then lying about it, and those who explain everything, everywhere in U.S.-centric terms -- even, in dbee's case, high-handedly rejecting the views my Venezuelan friend emailed me several days ago because they can not be reconciled with what he thinks ground conditions in Venezuela must be like (per his cherished "documentary," no doubt).
I have also discovered that it is entirely pointless to reason with those who hold such worldviews.
In any case, the most decisive factor in the problematic U.S.-Venezuelan relationship today is Chavez and his groupies and their undeniably confrontational, indeed puerile, attitudes towards international affairs.
Don't just ask Washington, however. You can get that from the Mexican and Peruvian govts as well, each of which have dealt with a Chavez tantrum in the last year... |
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dbee
Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Location: korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:58 am Post subject: |
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Gopher don't take it personally that I don't put much believe behind anonymous quotes on the internet. I'm sure your friend is a wonderful person, but I'd rather believe groups like Amnesty and the IRC etc ...
As for anti-Americanism, I guess it must be easy to attribute that to many posters nowadays. What with all the CIA sponsored coup attempts and oil wars going on.
The reality is just the opposite though, I'm pro-American, but anti-American government. What does your average American citizen gain from a coup in Venezuala or a war in Iraq ? ... nothing IMO. Unless they come from a wealthy defense or oil background, the American people are getting screwed over just as badly as everyone else.
You're being too sensitive Gopher, and you're taking all critisim of your government personally. The US was the first country in the world to codify a free press into the constituiton, as well as many other freedoms imaged by Hume, Locke, Voltaire, Washington and others. Don't be afraid to use them mate ...
PS: apologies Gopher - you attribution of the quote to a 'Venezualan' left me with no way of knowing that the author was your friend. I'm sure he's a nice (although somewhat misguided) individual.  |
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