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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
And beside that, women in islam are no more free than North Koreans rotting in jail in KimLand (though the muzzies are likely better fed). Islam enslaves women. The veil and burka are means of maintaining a monopoly of ownership over women.
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eh no. There is nothing in the quran about burkas nor veils. Sura 4, titled "women" says they should dress modestly. It can be interpreted in a variety of ways. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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ain't y'all talkin' 'bout the neegruhs  |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| khyber wrote: |
| ain't y'all talkin' 'bout the neegruhs |
That'll have gone straight over their little simian heads.... |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
Indonesia executes Christian millitants
Evil christianity strikes again! And this is in a muslim majority country! Imagine what those christians will do when THEY'RE the majority! AHHHH |
And how does indonesia punish their muslim militants? they don't.
You're overlooking the wholesale ethnic cleansing, persecution, and state-sanctioned slaughter of Indonesian Christians over the past few years. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:10 am Post subject: |
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So, the women all wearing veils and such, who just happen to be muslim, are making it up?
If that is the case, then why did the muslims scream bloody murder in France when the headscarf was banned in public places. They clearly said it was an anti-islamic law.
Camon, women in a 'relationship' with a committed muslim man are best characterized as enslaved to him. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
So, the women all wearing veils and such, who just happen to be muslim, are making it up?
If that is the case, then why did the muslims scream bloody murder in France when the headscarf was banned in public places. They clearly said it was an anti-islamic law.
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1. no, it has been a part of their culture since long before Islam.
2. The headscarf is different from the veil. As I mentioned in my previous post, the sura can be interpreted a variety of ways. There might also be a hadith about covering your head, but I'm not sure. Anyway, the obvious people the law was affecting were Muslim women. Who else wears headscarfs?? Nuns, that's about it.
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And how does indonesia punish their muslim militants? they don't.
You're overlooking the wholesale ethnic cleansing, persecution, and state-sanctioned slaughter of Indonesian Christians over the past few years. |
Ok dude, I'll spell it out: Here, I took one random article about Indonesian Christians, and made a vast generalization. It is akin what BJWD did in some of his posts (such as the Saudi dude). Things are a lot more complicated than what a lot of people on this board make them out to be.
Junior, how do I put this nicely? Originally your posts seemed well thought out, but it appears you've become more and more defensive about Christianity and the West, and putting that as priority #1. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:58 am Post subject: |
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Look, you don't have to produce graduate level research when posting on an Internet message board.
Make your claim, provide some evidence and move on. When people criticize your assertion, as they should, provide more evidence to back up your claim.
And about the Saudi guy.. Do you really think that what he did was out of the ordinary for a obedient muslim (who has the means to own a slave?).
Besides, my point wasn't that he did it, rather, it was that he did it and used islam to justify it. Fine. But my interest was that even though the muslim said it was permitted in islam many on this site will say 'no it isn't', as if they are more able to make a claim about islam then a fundamentalist muslim. My point was that Western hubris and arrogance leads us to define for them what their religion is and isn't. When I am rather comfortable in taking the seething masses at their word.
Finally, yes, the headscarf was part of nomadic arab culture before islam. Which, of course, misses the point that islam is the codification in religious terms of pre-modern Arab nomadic cultural practices. Of course it was. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:07 am Post subject: |
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And how does indonesia punish their muslim militants? they don't.
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Umm, are you under the impression that Muslim militants go universally unpunished throughout the Muslim world?
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Four people were sentenced to death and eight to life in prison today in a trial of suspected members of a militant group trying to set up an Islamic state to replace the Egyptian Government.
The trial, at a military base near Cairo, was of suspected members of the Islamic Group, the largest militant group fighting the Government. One death sentence went to Mohammed Fawzi, accused of leading an illegal terrorist group and possessing explosives.
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CAIRO (AFP) - Almost daily arrests of Muslim Brothers in Egypt reflect the regime's growing irritation with the inflammatory rhetoric of the opposition Islamist movement's leader.
"Mohammed Mehdi Akef upped the ante recently," said Kamal Habib, a political analyst and former member of the Jihad Group, which was behind a wave of deadly violence in the 1990s.
The powerful Muslim Brotherhood's spiritual leader -- a respected figure in Sunni Islam -- had said earlier this month that he was ready to send 10,000 fighters to Lebanon to fight Israel alongside Shiite militant group Hezbollah.
A few days later, he lashed out at Arab leaders, accusing them of condoning Israel's punishing offensive against Lebanon by not reacting strongly enough.
"If they weren't Muslims, we would have killed them, because they are a bigger threat to the nation than Israel itself," Akef had told an Egyptian newspaper.
"When the guide (Akef) says that he can control 10,000 armed men, it is tantamount to saying that there is a state within the state," said Imad Gad, an analyst with the Al-Ahram Centre for Political and Strategic Studies.
"And his words on assassinating Arab officials can only draw indignation," he told AFP. "Lebanese President Emile Lahoud is not a Muslim, does that mean that the Muslim Brothers should kill him?"
The Muslim Brotherhood claims to be a non-violent organisation. It is officially illegal but has been tolerated by the authorities and its candidates secured a fifth of the seats in parliament in elections last year.
A few hours after the July 12 capture of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah was announced, Akef was one of the first to react and heartily congratulated the Shiite militants.
The Egyptian government had voiced criticism of Hezbollah's cross-border raid, charging that the movement's "adventurism" risked plunging the entire region into further chaos.
Egypt is one of only two Arab countries to have a peace treaty with Israel and the month-long war in Lebanon has revived popular and opposition calls for the government to reconsider its relations with the Jewish state.
In his latest weekly address on Thursday, Akef launched a fresh diatribe against the Jewish state and advocated a struggle "against the sons of Israel".
Such comments, combined with the Brotherhood's activities in parliament, "are an additional pressure on the government," Kamal Habib said.
The authorities retaliated by launching a fresh wave of arrests targeting the Muslim Brothers.
On Friday, 17 members of the group were nabbed by police, including the movement's number two, Mahmud Ezzat. The next day, four more members were arrested. Books and tapes were also seized.
A total of 38 members of the Brotherhood were detained in a week, bringing to 120 the number of the movement's supporters currently behind bars, senior Brotherhood official Abdel Moneim Abul Futuh told AFP.
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Malaysian authorities arrested 14 suspected members of a group linked to Al Qaeda in raids that turned up a map of the country's largest port, officials said today.
The authorities seized military training notes, computers and a map of Port Klang in raids across the country. Among those arrested was Sejahratul Dursina, who is married to Yazid Sufaat, a former Malaysian army captain jailed on allegations he let Al Qaeda members, including two of the Sept. 11 hijackers, stay in an apartment the couple owned in 2000.
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http://tinyurl.com/z4xkd
http://tinyurl.com/hnu2f
http://tinyurl.com/l4w7n |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
Look, you don't have to produce graduate level research when posting on an Internet message board.
Make your claim, provide some evidence and move on. When people criticize your assertion, as they should, provide more evidence to back up your claim. |
Eh, is this directed towards me? not sure what you're refering to.
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| And about the Saudi guy.. Do you really think that what he did was out of the ordinary for a obedient muslim (who has the means to own a slave?). |
For a gulf arab, no. For muslims in general, yes.
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| Besides, my point wasn't that he did it, rather, it was that he did it and used islam to justify it. Fine. But my interest was that even though the muslim said it was permitted in islam many on this site will say 'no it isn't', as if they are more able to make a claim about islam then a fundamentalist muslim. My point was that Western hubris and arrogance leads us to define for them what their religion is and isn't. When I am rather comfortable in taking the seething masses at their word. |
Interesting way to go about it. You come across more as someone with a hard-on for Muslims who needs to relax a little.
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| Finally, yes, the headscarf was part of nomadic arab culture before islam. Which, of course, misses the point that islam is the codification in religious terms of pre-modern Arab nomadic cultural practices. Of course it was. |
well uh, duh.  A religion doesn't just pop out of thin air. Do you not think the church of latter day saints "codfied" american frontier culture a bit? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| [well uh, duh. A religion doesn't just pop out of thin air. Do you not think the church of latter day saints "codfied" american frontier culture a bit? |
I wouldn't use the LDS to prove a point that " A religion doesn't just pop out of thin air".  |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| why not? elaborate. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:26 am Post subject: |
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why not? elaborate.
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I think most people have a tendency to regard Mormonism as a "made up" religion, in a way that they don't regard Christianity, Islam, etc. This is probably because of Mormonism's more recent founding.
Of course, from a materialist perspective, ALL religions are human fabrications. But since Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed, etc lived a long time ago, it's easier to let the claims about their unique relation to the supernatural go unchallenged, whereas Joseph Smith is widely regarded as being a flesh-and-blood historical figure, about whom there is ample documentation.
But I think you and UM might not have been on quite the same page in terms of your meaning. You were referring to the tendency of religions to incorporate pre-existing customs, whereas he was talking about whether or not the religion was created by its founders. |
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in_seoul_2003
Joined: 24 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:31 am Post subject: |
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...
Last edited by in_seoul_2003 on Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Because they interpret the Korean differently. Modest means different things to different people. That is true, but doesn't negate my central point that islam, TODAY, is a sick and twisted death-cult of hate. Maybe tomorrw or in 2000 years it will be different.
Bottom line, if someone does something crazy, and says he did it for religion, I take him at his word. If millions of people do crazy things and blame it on religion, I call it a pattern of behaviour that necessitates discrimination. I don't care why Syrians seem to be a tad less crazy that Saudis. In choosing my immigrants both are excluded because the fundamental outline of their backwardness is due to islam. Bring on the Mexicans and Christian Kenyans. Indians, Chinese and Koreans are all fine. No muslims. If you are a British convert to islam, sorry, but we are closed off to you until your religion and culture catch up.
Maybe one day the crazy muzzies will have a group wake-up and realize they are all nuts. But I don't think it is going to be in my lifetime and thus I want them kept out of Canada. My words are harsh, yes, but they are honest.
And I have never defended the WWJD types. Don't put words in my mouth. I believe in a secular society where all are treated equal under the law. Christians have traditionally been the focus of my attention, but for the last few years I've saved a special spot for the muslims. Christians are responsible for a lot of stupid stuff but I believe they have been largely neutered in Canada, so I've moved on. The rest of you should too. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| In choosing my immigrants both are excluded because the fundamental outline of their backwardness is due to islam |
You are making me laugh heartily this morning, that is good!
A bit paternalistic, aren't we? Your immigrants? Seems like you suffer from some sort of backwardness yourself.....this kind of thinking and illusions of grandeur. Reminds me of the old phrase, "my nigga", used commonly after emancipation.......
Get used to the brave new world of multiculturalism and multi faith. Or else get you a cabin up in Montana somewhere and buy canned food.
DD |
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