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U.S. threatened to bomb Pakistan
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laogaiguk

Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:28 pm Post subject:

Gopher wrote:

Has something to do with Musharref's memoirs, which he is publishing this week, apparently.

It seems that W. Bush acknowledges it and apologizes for it, but no one is taking responsibility on the U.S. side for actually saying it, especially not Armitage...

Quote:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush on Friday said he was "taken aback" by a report that a U.S. official threatened the United States would attack Pakistan if it did not help immediately after 9/11.

Bush made the remarks at a White House news conference with Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, thanking the U.S. ally for his role in the war on terror.

The Pakistan president has told CBS News that -- immediately following the September 11, 2001, attacks -- the Bush administration threatened to bomb his country "back to the Stone Age" if Pakistan did not help in the U.S. war on terrorism.

Bush said he first heard of the alleged threat "in the newspaper today." (Watch as Bush says he's unaware of any such conversation -- 1:56)

"I was taken aback by the harshness of the words," he said.

"All I can tell you is that shortly after 9/11, Secretary [of State] Colin Powell came in and said President Musharraf understands the stakes, and he wants to join and help root out an enemy that has come and killed 3,000 of our citizens."

Richard Armitage, then U.S. deputy secretary of state, is the official whom Musharraf identified in the CBS report. In an interview Friday with CNN, Armitage denied the allegation.

"Never did I threaten to use military force," he said. "I was not authorized to."

Armitage acknowledged he was part of a group who met with Pakistan's intelligence chief to convey strong U.S. determination. He said the message was that "we absolutely need their help if we were going to prosecute the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan."

"We wanted to make sure they understood both the opportunities and the downside, but there was no threat," he said.

Musharraf was asked Friday about the CBS report, but he said he couldn't talk about it because of a legal agreement with his publisher before the release of his new memoir next week...

I don't know what to think of this. For some reason, I actually think Bush might not have known about it. Whether Armitage said it or not I still don't know, but I am leaning more towards he said more than he should have but that the other side is probably overdoing it a bit too. After awhile, it's amazing what the human mind can do to a situation to make it better or worse Smile

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:02 am Post subject:

Quote:

Looking for civilized norms of behaviour.......How do Americans support a President who props up a dictator like Mussaraf? Oh yeah, I guess you got the well scripted, the sky is gonna fall answer, which always comes out when discussing the tyrants WE like. As if you know the future , as if democracy and civility is only good when it is "convenient". This seems to be the center of U.S. foreign policy , along with oil/business and revenge -- at the expense of American poor boys and girls.....while the well to do chink glasses in their glass towers, hour after hour.....

Mussaraf who allows opposition and lots of free speech . Not all dictators are the same.

He is in no way comparable to a Saddam Hussein or an Ayatollah Khomeni.

ddeubel

Joined: 20 Jul 2005

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:00 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Mussaraf who allows opposition and lots of free speech . Not all dictators are the same.

Just replying to make sure you know that I know, you know zip about Pakistan, given that statement...........

Again, you are following the logic of "my dictator is not a dictator....".

DD

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject:

ddeubel wrote:

Quote:

Mussaraf who allows opposition and lots of free speech . Not all dictators are the same.

Just replying to make sure you know that I know, you know zip about Pakistan, given that statement...........

Again, you are following the logic of "my dictator is not a dictator....".

DD

With your statement you show that you know zip about Pakistan.

Quote:

Protests against Musharraf's decision

By B. Muralidhar Reddy

ISLAMABAD, JAN. 1. The "black day" call given by the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) � an alliance of six religious parties of Pakistan � in protest against the decision of the Pakistan President, Pervez Musharraf, to continue as the Army Chief, appears to have evoked little interest.

http://www.hindu.com/2005/01/02/stories/2005010213241000.htm

Thousands rally against Musharraf
From CNN Producer Syed Mohsin Naqvi
Monday, March 21, 2005 Posted: 0016 GMT (0816 HKT)

Thousands of demonstrators in Karachi rallied against the Musharraf government.

Quote:

LAHORE, Pakistan (CNN) -- Tens of thousands of people from all religious parties have staged a rally in Karachi against Pakistan's president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, declaring him unacceptable because of his pro-American policies

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/03/20/pakistan.protest/index.html

Quote:

MMA to continue protest against Musharraf

Rawalpindi, March 23: President of Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal and Jamaat-e-Islami ameer Qazi Hussain Ahmad has called upon President General Pervez Musharraf to relinquish both the offices before the 2007 elections.

http://www.jamaat.org/news/2006/mar/23/1001.html

Now DD what would Khomeni or Saddam do if someone protested against them?

They would be killed and not only them but probably their families as well.

Musharraf is a dictator.

However Saddam and Khomeni were fascist dictators.

And again DD you don't know what you are talking about.

ddeubel

Joined: 20 Jul 2005

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ddeubel wrote:
Quote:
Mussaraf who allows opposition and lots of free speech . Not all dictators are the same.

Just replying to make sure you know that I know, you know zip about Pakistan, given that statement...........

Again, you are following the logic of "my dictator is not a dictator....".

DD

With your statement you show that you know zip about Pakistan.

Quote:
Protests against Musharraf's decision

By B. Muralidhar Reddy

ISLAMABAD, JAN. 1. The "black day" call given by the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) � an alliance of six religious parties of Pakistan � in protest against the decision of the Pakistan President, Pervez Musharraf, to continue as the Army Chief, appears to have evoked little interest.

http://www.hindu.com/2005/01/02/stories/2005010213241000.htm

Thousands rally against Musharraf
From CNN Producer Syed Mohsin Naqvi
Monday, March 21, 2005 Posted: 0016 GMT (0816 HKT)

Thousands of demonstrators in Karachi rallied against the Musharraf government.

Quote:

LAHORE, Pakistan (CNN) -- Tens of thousands of people from all religious parties have staged a rally in Karachi against Pakistan's president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, declaring him unacceptable because of his pro-American policies

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/03/20/pakistan.protest/index.html

Quote:
MMA to continue protest against Musharraf

Rawalpindi, March 23: President of Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal and Jamaat-e-Islami ameer Qazi Hussain Ahmad has called upon President General Pervez Musharraf to relinquish both the offices before the 2007 elections.

http://www.jamaat.org/news/2006/mar/23/1001.html

Now DD what would Khomeni or Saddam do if someone protested against them?

They would be killed and not only them but probably their families as well.

Musharraf is a dictator.

However Saddam and Khomeni were fascist dictators.

And again DD you don't know what you are talking about.

Joo, Number one -- please quit the tired line of Khomeini/Saddam, these dictators and badder than your dictator's schtick. It does nothing to be meaningful regarding this thread or many others....and it only shows your ignorance of how dictatorship works.....

Number two -- please quit the cut and paste whatever you look up, seeming to support your arguement. Intelligent people know the difference. I will speak from what I know and refrain from cutting and pasting. Especially in this case and addressing you....I do know "some" things about Pakistan.

Pakistan has been run by Musarraf and is a dictatorship run by self censorship. More and more so....there is still a toehold of protest BUT the army (well disciplined, well paid -- the key to any dictatorship, keep the paychecks coming...), constantly harasss political parties, beat, imprison and kill. I should not need to cite that Pakistan is at the top of the list of CPJ (committee to protect journalists). Nor the 8 deaths, nor talk of Daniel Pearle, nor of Sharif and the president casually sending him riding into exile, nor the specious claims against Bhutto (though maybe something in the case of her husband but that is par and Musarraf is also a very rich and corrupt man). Nor need I mention how small the protests are now, well controlled.

Did you hear what happened last week, after a protest.? Please tell me and show me your knowledge of Pakistan on the ground. I will leave you to elaborate on this.

Mussaraf is a U.S. dupe. Took away democracy, rules through the military, gives himself the president for life title, rigs referendums, calls up newspapers and judges and winks and nods for compliance, need I not mention my Khan (I'm sure you are fully aware of the case Smile

)))))))) and the pardon after being found guilty and his own admissions/confession. Need I not also note how Mussaraf is increasing the religious groups, extremists, as he drives moderation underground. This is VERY dangerous and he is the worst enemy of a future, civil and stable Pakistan.

Now you can say all you want -- about this dictator being good , bringing stability and all that.....what you are really saying again to state my case (which your few quotes of protests being held....do nothing to counter), is that "he is our man" , let's forget about democracy and let's forget about basic rights , let's forget about the future of the region.....

Finally,

Saddam and Khomeini also tolerated protests and dissent. Iran still does have much protest. But the form is quaint, official, small scale, just for show.......just like in Pakistan. If there were mass rallies like against ZIA in the past, Mussaraf would bring down the full weight of the army. People know it and are scared of that..... I know, have lived in countries where this is the case. Protest is the luxury of the crazed/brave or those without families...

DD

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:33 am Post subject:

Quote:

Really? Why isn't how bad or cruel a dictator is important

Quote:

Number two -- please quit the cut and paste whatever you look up, seeming to support your arguement. Intelligent people know the difference. I will speak from what I know and refrain from cutting and pasting. Especially in this case and addressing you....I do know "some" things about Pakistan.

No I will do what ever I can to make my case. I have evidence you usually don't have it.

Quote:

Pakistan has been run by Musarraf and is a dictatorship run by self censorship. More and more so....there is still a toehold of protest BUT the army (well disciplined, well paid -- the key to any dictatorship, keep the paychecks coming...), constantly harasss political parties, beat, imprison and kill. I should not need to cite that Pakistan is at the top of the list of CPJ (committee to protect journalists). Nor the 8 deaths, nor talk of Daniel Pearle, nor of Sharif and the president casually sending him riding into exile, nor the specious claims against Bhutto (though maybe something in the case of her husband but that is par and Musarraf is also a very rich and corrupt man). Nor need I mention how small the protests are now, well controlled.

I have a link of a mass protest. Whatever comparing Musarraf to Saddam or Khomeni is like comparing Lee Syng Man to Kim Il Sung.

Saddam and Khomeni were worse - far worse. No ifs ands or anything else.

Quote:

Did you hear what happened last week, after a protest.? Please tell me and show me your knowledge of Pakistan on the ground. I will leave you to elaborate on this.

no but it wasn't like what Saddam, or Khomeni or Assad would do.

Quote:

Mussaraf is a U.S. dupe. Took away democracy, rules through the military, gives himself the president for life title, rigs referendums, calls up newspapers and judges and winks and nods for compliance, need I not mention my Khan (I'm sure you are fully aware of the case Smile

And he is a saint compared to Khomeni yes or no? In fact he is a lot more tolerant than most mideast dictators. Oh more selective crticism from DD.

Quote:

Now you can say all you want -- about this dictator being good , bringing stability and all that.....what you are really saying again to state my case (which your few quotes of protests being held....do nothing to counter), is that "he is our man" , let's forget about democracy and let's forget about basic rights , let's forget about the future of the region.....

Finally,

Again there are lots of dictators far worse than Musharif but you are on him cause he friendly to the US.

Quote:

Saddam and Khomeini also tolerated protests and dissent.

Really ?

Quote:

Iran still does have much protest. But the form is quaint, official, small scale, just for show.......

Quote:

just like in Pakistan.[/quot If there were mass rallies like against ZIA in the past, Mussaraf would bring down the full weight of the army. People know it and are scared of that..... I know, have lived in countries where this is the case. Protest is the luxury of the crazed/brave or those without families...

When has Mushafif brought in the army?

Khomen on the other hand carried out a mass killing of 30,000 in 1988.

When has Musharif ever done such a thing?

You do the comparison.

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