|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Peter Jackson
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
|
 Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:20 am Post subject: Drugs |
 |
|
Although I am not a fan of drugs (except booze) I do not think teachers here should be required to submit to drug tests. Koreans often have very little concept about privacy and who knows where the test results will be forwarded.
Just because someone may smoke now and again, I don't feel that that would make him or her unfit to teach. Sure hardcore drug addicts may be inappropriate but how many junkies have you met here?
I've met my fair share of alcoholic teachers here and I can't say that someone who smokes pot would be any more dangerous to childen then the chronic boozer.
As far as background checks go, this is the sole perogative of the school/hagwon. I can't really say how effective it would be as a great deal of criminals (or potential ones) have never been charged with any crime.
Also, isn't it hard to get a passport if you've had a serious conviction? Someone close to me had a hard time getting a passport and a Visa for Mexico due to a three year old DUI conviction. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="Qinella"]
| Adventurer wrote: |
| I think you think it is appropriate to judge a person's ability to perform a job by a credit check. |
I will point out to you for the second consecutive time now that this is not at all what I said. I will repeat my original claim that one's credit rating is an indicator of responsibility. I'm sure there are exceptions, but in general, I think this is true. I look at someone who has absolute crap credit in their home country and is running from tens of thousands in debt, and I think they are not trustworthy. Don't you?
I understand that to some extent. The better credit you have, the more likely you are prudent. However, if you make a judgement that someone is unfit to teach ESL in Korea or anywhere based on that, I think that is a stretch, and you would be eliminating many people. Many people made credit mistakes in college. It is not like worrying about someone who has a drinking problem. I think checking one's references is fairer than a simple credit check. I think a background check to see if someone has a felony and checking their professional references including those in Korea make more sense to me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="Adventurer"]
| Qinella wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| I think you think it is appropriate to judge a person's ability to perform a job by a credit check. |
I will point out to you for the second consecutive time now that this is not at all what I said. I will repeat my original claim that one's credit rating is an indicator of responsibility. I'm sure there are exceptions, but in general, I think this is true. I look at someone who has absolute crap credit in their home country and is running from tens of thousands in debt, and I think they are not trustworthy. Don't you?
I understand that to some extent. The better credit you have, the more likely you are prudent. However, if you make a judgement that someone is unfit to teach ESL in Korea or anywhere based on that, I think that is a stretch, and you would be eliminating many people. Many people made credit mistakes in college. It is not like worrying about someone who has a drinking problem. I think checking one's references is fairer than a simple credit check. I think a background check to see if someone has a felony and checking their professional references including those in Korea make more sense to me. |
Really? I don't know. I would bet that most people who are weirdo freakout idiots here don't have criminal backgrounds in their home countries. But, they do have a credit score.
Anyway, that was just one of my suggestions, out of three. It should be A factor, not the factor. If you have kind of a bad credit score, okay, well, whatever. If your credit is in ruins.. you probably aren't a very responsible person, for whatever reason.
I'm not talking about how good a teacher you are, I'm talking about how responsible you are. Of course, the two are intrinsically linked. Sure, maybe some of us made mistakes in the past, and are doing our best to amend those mistakes. Well.. try telling that to a major corporation in the US. They're gonna do a credit check on you. It's the new thing. Korea just needs to get hip to it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="Qinella"]
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Qinella wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| I think you think it is appropriate to judge a person's ability to perform a job by a credit check. |
I will point out to you for the second consecutive time now that this is not at all what I said. I will repeat my original claim that one's credit rating is an indicator of responsibility. I'm sure there are exceptions, but in general, I think this is true. I look at someone who has absolute crap credit in their home country and is running from tens of thousands in debt, and I think they are not trustworthy. Don't you?
I understand that to some extent. The better credit you have, the more likely you are prudent. However, if you make a judgement that someone is unfit to teach ESL in Korea or anywhere based on that, I think that is a stretch, and you would be eliminating many people. Many people made credit mistakes in college. It is not like worrying about someone who has a drinking problem. I think checking one's references is fairer than a simple credit check. I think a background check to see if someone has a felony and checking their professional references including those in Korea make more sense to me. |
Really? I don't know. I would bet that most people who are weirdo freakout idiots here don't have criminal backgrounds in their home countries. But, they do have a credit score.
Anyway, that was just one of my suggestions, out of three. It should be A factor, not the factor. If you have kind of a bad credit score, okay, well, whatever. If your credit is in ruins.. you probably aren't a very responsible person, for whatever reason.
I'm not talking about how good a teacher you are, I'm talking about how responsible you are. Of course, the two are intrinsically linked. Sure, maybe some of us made mistakes in the past, and are doing our best to amend those mistakes. Well.. try telling that to a major corporation in the US. They're gonna do a credit check on you. It's the new thing. Korea just needs to get hip to it. |
Actually, I know a fellow many of us down here don't particularly like, and we suspect he must have had some kind of felony back home. So, don't be so sure. So why not check for felonies or former drug possession?
My credit isn't in ruins, but it has been affected by a medical bill I wasn't able to pay before. Stuff happens to people. It is better than many people I used to check to see if they would be approved for cell phones. I didn't have to pay deposits for stuff. I think a good credit score is important. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
skate_of_mind
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Drug usage/alcohol and drug-testing - I used to smoke a lot of pot when I was a little bit younger. I don't smoke so much now because it makes me feel sluggish the following day. It didn't used to, and if it still didn't, I'd still be smoking it a lot more than I do now. I buy marijuana now maybe 3 times a year. The amount I buy (which aint a lot - 1/4oz) lasts me for 4 weeks. I smoke pipes - I never have (and probably never will) smoke tobacco - not through moral reasons but because personally I don't like the taste. I'll smoke perhaps 2 pipes of an evening. I am clever and articulate. I am interested in a large varienty of subjects. I have an IQ of 134. I have never classed myself as a pothead. My definition of a pothead is someone who smokes joints like cigarettes - maybe 10-20 per day. Who cannot get out of bed without a spliff and who can't get through their day without a toke. My definition of an alcoholic is pretty much the same - substitute the joint for a wee glass of vodka. I don't thikn people who have these dependencies should be around children, but I also don't think they should be hounded for it. I think they need help and support and that this should be available to them.
Occasional smoking doesn't make you a pothead. I think dependency makes you a pot head. I smoke because I enjoy it and hey! I go through long periods of time without smoking anything at all!
Here are some famous people who I wouldn't mind teaching my kids (if i had kids). Some of them are dead, but this is just for fun!
Music: Louis Armstrong and Jimi Hendrix
English Lit and Poetry: Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Bob Dylan, Allen Ginsberg, Charles Dickens(man he got BEEPED - the guy who wrote A Tale of Two Cities), Oscar Wilde, Tenesee Williams, William Shakespeare
Politics: Bob Marley and Bill Clinton (yeah like he didn't inhale!) also Montel Williams - he can moderate the debate team!
Journalism: Hunter S Thompson
Creative Writing: Aldous Huxley, Douglas Adams, Edgar Allen Poe
Drama: Jack Nicolson, Woodey Harrelson, Marlon Brando
Physical Ed: Jane Fonda
Art: Andy Warhol, Pablo Picasso, Salvador Dali, Van Gogh
Maths: Pythagoras, Richards Feynman (Nobel Prize physicist - founder of quantum electrodynamics)
Business Studies: Richard Branson, Tony Elliot (publisher, 'Time Out')
I think everyone would learn something from these people (even if it was how to roll a really good J   |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Actually, I know a fellow many of us down here don't particularly like, and we suspect he must have had some kind of felony back home. So, don't be so sure. So why not check for felonies or former drug possession? |
You're a nice guy, so I'm going to politely point out that criminal background checks is something I already suggested earlier.
- Criminal background check
- Credit check
- Calling of references on CVs
Those things should be done. Drug tests, though? No. I'm absolutely against that. First, I'm not convinced drugs are bad. Second, I'm not convinced drugs affect your job performance. Lots of doctors and other professionals are cocaine and heroin useres. They get by just fine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Qinella wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Actually, I know a fellow many of us down here don't particularly like, and we suspect he must have had some kind of felony back home. So, don't be so sure. So why not check for felonies or former drug possession? |
You're a nice guy, so I'm going to politely point out that criminal background checks is something I already suggested earlier.
- Criminal background check
- Credit check
- Calling of references on CVs
Those things should be done. Drug tests, though? No. I'm absolutely against that. First, I'm not convinced drugs are bad. Second, I'm not convinced drugs affect your job performance. Lots of doctors and other professionals are cocaine and heroin useres. They get by just fine. |
So are you against drug testing in North America as well?
I simply don't see what people are complaining about when for a number of jobs back in the West you would get drug tested as well.
You can be against something all you want...but if it is a fact of life (particularly in your chosen profession) them's the breaks.
Gotta love how people on here complain about Korea not being up to the West's standards and yet even suggesting that Korea implement a law that is similar to the West, brings on outrage.
Come on people you can't have it both ways. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
So are you against drug testing in North America as well?
I simply don't see what people are complaining about when for a number of jobs back in the West you would get drug tested as well. |
How does it work there? Otis in his OP said that teachers in the U.S. are tested for drug use. I know there are many ESL teachers in Korea and on Dave's who used to teach in North America, but I've yet to see any of them write something like "Yay, Korea! Phew!! No more wee-wee tests!!" Is that because:
a. Drug-testing teachers in North America was only very recently enforced, so the teachers here wouldn't have been subject to it when they taught back home?
b. Enforcement varies from state to state, province to province, and it just so happens that most ESL teachers in Korea came from non-testing states or provinces?
c. I'm just mistaken and really there aren't many ESL teachers on Dave's who used to be teachers back home?
d. Otis was joking? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bosintang
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: In the pot with the rest of the mutts
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nevermind "back home".
Nevermind the philosophical issue (what exactly is drug-testing foreign teachers going to accomplish anyways? Better-quality teachers? Hah!), what about the pragmatic issue?
I had to deal with a job recruiter about getting a criminal background check and noone knew anything about it except that I had to have one. Imagine how complicated drug-testing is in comparison to that?
Who here can honestly say they have faith in Korean authorities to protect your safety and privacy? Imagine your school principal being told that the foreign teacher needs to go for a drug test without being provided any other information. Imagine your urine sample being mixed up with someone elses, or imagine getting a false positive test and having to go back for a second test. The worst part is that everyone else would know about it before you.
Last edited by bosintang on Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
For the record, I'll pee anywhere, anytime and on anyone.
Oops, scratch that last one. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Qinella wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Actually, I know a fellow many of us down here don't particularly like, and we suspect he must have had some kind of felony back home. So, don't be so sure. So why not check for felonies or former drug possession? |
You're a nice guy, so I'm going to politely point out that criminal background checks is something I already suggested earlier.
- Criminal background check
- Credit check
- Calling of references on CVs
Those things should be done. Drug tests, though? No. I'm absolutely against that. First, I'm not convinced drugs are bad. Second, I'm not convinced drugs affect your job performance. Lots of doctors and other professionals are cocaine and heroin useres. They get by just fine. |
a So are you against drug testing in North America as well?
b I simply don't see what people are complaining about when for a number of jobs back in the West you would get drug tested as well.
c You can be against something all you want...but if it is a fact of life (particularly in your chosen profession) them's the breaks.
d Gotta love how people on here complain about Korea not being up to the West's standards and yet even suggesting that Korea implement a law that is similar to the West, brings on outrage.
Come on people you can't have it both ways. |
In honor of your response style, I have added bolded letters!
a - Yes. I said earlier in this thread, though you may not have seen it. I think that, except for some exceptions, drug testing is a ridiculous measure that is unnecessary and an invasion of privacy. I also support the decriminalization of recreational drugs, but that's another conversation.
b - I didn't complain. I simply gave my opinion that drug testing is unnecessary. I'll go one further and say that it's especially improper in the case of foreign teachers coming to Korea because most of us who did drugs back home wouldn't do them here. So, it would be moot, really.
c - Previously, I hadn't pegged you as a fan of truisms. It seems I was wrong.
d - Outrage? Complaints? I have to wonder if you're trying to be productive or just patting yourself on the back.
Q. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| skate_of_mind wrote: |
| William Shakespeare |
So Shakespeare was a hophead?
Didja read that in "High Times"? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
n3ptne
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Location: Poh*A*ng City
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
If you want to teach in the States, you gotta have one.
You also have to undergo a background check.
Why not teachers in Korea? |
...because the US is one of the most oppressive governments on the planets in regards to personal freedoms?
Who cares what is and isn't legal? I don't. It's a matter of whats right and isn't right. Laws change, objective morality doesn't. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
So are you against drug testing in North America as well?
I simply don't see what people are complaining about when for a number of jobs back in the West you would get drug tested as well. |
How does it work there? Otis in his OP said that teachers in the U.S. are tested for drug use. I know there are many ESL teachers in Korea and on Dave's who used to teach in North America, but I've yet to see any of them write something like "Yay, Korea! Phew!! No more wee-wee tests!!" Is that because:
a. Drug-testing teachers in North America was only very recently enforced, so the teachers here wouldn't have been subject to it when they taught back home?
b. Enforcement varies from state to state, province to province, and it just so happens that most ESL teachers in Korea came from non-testing states or provinces?
c. I'm just mistaken and really there aren't many ESL teachers on Dave's who used to be teachers back home?
d. Otis was joking? |
And the answer is C. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Qinella wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Qinella wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Actually, I know a fellow many of us down here don't particularly like, and we suspect he must have had some kind of felony back home. So, don't be so sure. So why not check for felonies or former drug possession? |
You're a nice guy, so I'm going to politely point out that criminal background checks is something I already suggested earlier.
- Criminal background check
- Credit check
- Calling of references on CVs
Those things should be done. Drug tests, though? No. I'm absolutely against that. First, I'm not convinced drugs are bad. Second, I'm not convinced drugs affect your job performance. Lots of doctors and other professionals are cocaine and heroin useres. They get by just fine. |
a So are you against drug testing in North America as well?
b I simply don't see what people are complaining about when for a number of jobs back in the West you would get drug tested as well.
c You can be against something all you want...but if it is a fact of life (particularly in your chosen profession) them's the breaks.
d Gotta love how people on here complain about Korea not being up to the West's standards and yet even suggesting that Korea implement a law that is similar to the West, brings on outrage.
Come on people you can't have it both ways. |
In honor of your response style, I have added bolded letters!
a - Yes. I said earlier in this thread, though you may not have seen it. I think that, except for some exceptions, drug testing is a ridiculous measure that is unnecessary and an invasion of privacy. I also support the decriminalization of recreational drugs, but that's another conversation.
b - I didn't complain. I simply gave my opinion that drug testing is unnecessary. I'll go one further and say that it's especially improper in the case of foreign teachers coming to Korea because most of us who did drugs back home wouldn't do them here. So, it would be moot, really.
c - Previously, I hadn't pegged you as a fan of truisms. It seems I was wrong.
d - Outrage? Complaints? I have to wonder if you're trying to be productive or just patting yourself on the back.
Q. |
(a) You also mentioned exceptions. So why do you think teachers or anyone who works with children should not be drug tested?
(b) I don't know if I'd agree with your assumption that "most of us who did drugs back home wouldn't do them here." See (d) But fair enough.
(c) Sometimes one gets exasperated when pointing out something that appears to be obvious thus the use of the truism.
(d) It was a serious observation. People on here have complained about Korea not being like the West in legal terms. For example see the thread on car seats or any thread about violated contracts. Yet a mere observation that Korea should implement a law similar to the U.S brings on massive outrage including flames. Look at the names otis was called. I hardly see this as "patting myself on the back". I'm giving an opinion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
