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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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 Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| Beej wrote: |
| Thats right. Go get em Chavez. Dont worry about the 60% of your country that lives well below the poverty line. |
So, does this mean you believe in government intervention to ease the burdens of the poor and to help them to get out of poverty?
I'm guessing then, that probably like most of the Hurricane Katrina victims you didn't vote for Bush or support his policies of neglect, right?
Regarding the poor of Venezuela, they certainly are a large proportion of the population, but were even larger before Chavez. I doubt they would keep electing him by such large majorities in internationally recognized fair elections (wish we had those) if they weren't seeing their conditions improve, do you? |
You do realize why many of us believe the Far Left is morally bankrupt, right? |
Uh, no. But I'll bet it's a doozy   |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| Beej wrote: |
| Thats right. Go get em Chavez. Dont worry about the 60% of your country that lives well below the poverty line. |
So, does this mean you believe in government intervention to ease the burdens of the poor and to help them to get out of poverty?
I'm guessing then, that probably like most of the Hurricane Katrina victims you didn't vote for Bush or support his policies of neglect, right?
Regarding the poor of Venezuela, they certainly are a large proportion of the population, but were even larger before Chavez. I doubt they would keep electing him by such large majorities in internationally recognized fair elections (wish we had those) if they weren't seeing their conditions improve, do you? |
You do realize why many of us believe the Far Left is morally bankrupt, right? |
Uh, no. But I'll bet it's a doozy |
Just this, you sound a lot like the right-wingers I've spoken to, although a little more knowledgable about the world and probably more fun at parties (or parties I would like to be at), except the heroes and villains are reversed.
Chavez is very much like a leftist version of Bush. He's been a divider for Venezuala, not a uniter. He's been controversial abroad and completely undiplomatic. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
...Yes, oil cash should go into the pockets of the citizens and be kept out of the hands of chavez and his thugs. ... |
So, do you also believe that oil cash here in the US should go into the pockets of our citizens and be kept out of the hands of Exxon-Mobil and their thugs? I'm with ya there, bro.
"Exxon is giving Lee Raymond one of the most generous retirement packages in history, nearly $400 million, including pension, stock options and other perks, such as a $1 million consulting deal, two years of home security, personal security, a car and driver, and use of a corporate jet for professional purposes.
Last November, when he was still chairman of Exxon, Raymond told Congress that gas prices were high because of global supply and demand.
"We're all in this together, everywhere in the world," he testified."
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1841989
I'd say ole Ray has a pretty huge global demand of his own, and by the looks of him is gettin' a might oversupplied if you know what I mean. It can't be good for your health to be that much of a porker no matter how rich you are, Ray. |
so two wrongs make a right? |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
R. S. Refugee wrote
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Well, sure I did. But you're quoting me out of context there, old chap. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| Beej wrote: |
| Thats right. Go get em Chavez. Dont worry about the 60% of your country that lives well below the poverty line. |
So, does this mean you believe in government intervention to ease the burdens of the poor and to help them to get out of poverty?
I'm guessing then, that probably like most of the Hurricane Katrina victims you didn't vote for Bush or support his policies of neglect, right?
Regarding the poor of Venezuela, they certainly are a large proportion of the population, but were even larger before Chavez. I doubt they would keep electing him by such large majorities in internationally recognized fair elections (wish we had those) if they weren't seeing their conditions improve, do you? |
You do realize why many of us believe the Far Left is morally bankrupt, right? |
The far left being anyone to the left of hitler?? Anyway, what's your throwaway line got to do with anything RSR wrote here? Please explain! |
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dbee
Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Location: korea
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:54 am Post subject: |
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Royalties, not profits, should go to the citizen.
Profits are the risk-reward for the investment and delay on consumption that individual investors, via a firm, attempt to gain for engaging on economic activity. Economic activity that creates wealth, jobs and products that benefit society as a whole.
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BJWD ... I agree with your economics in general, just not in this case. Yes, the rich and wealthy who take risks, employ and train staff and generally give back to society should be given as free a reign as possible to do that. If you invent a non-conductive metal, or you launch an internet business like Amazon. Then you should be amply rewarded in terms of cash and social standing.
However I don't agree that this extends to oil. Oil sits in the ground, waiting to be pumped out. It's black gold, the market is already there, the know-how is easy to acquire. The only possible risk involved might be oil exploration, but most oil fields are discovered by now and even the cost of exploration pales in significance when compared to the vast quantites of wealth generated by one pump.
A countries oil should benefit the people of the country directly. There is no need for oil executives to get $400 million dollar retirement checks + other benefits. I support the Venezualan view on this 100%. I state here 'the Venezualan view' because Chavez is acting on a mandate of 59% of the Venezualan population.
What's happening at the moment is that billions and billions of dollars is being pumped out of the earth. And is then being divided up amongst a very elite few, whilst the people who live on that land go hungry and barefoot. |
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-X-
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:24 am Post subject: |
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pardon the detour, but i find it rather amusing that after Chavez's little tirade before the UN, Chomsky's 3 year old book jumped from #26,000 to the #1 spot on amazon.com (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0925-01.htm).
i wonder if theyre splitting the royalties |
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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| -X- wrote: |
pardon the detour, but i find it rather amusing that after Chavez's little tirade before the UN, Chomsky's 3 year old book jumped from #26,000 to the #1 spot on amazon.com (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0925-01.htm).
i wonder if theyre splitting the royalties |
Was it entitled, El Diablo?
(and dedicated to Cheney? I can smell the sulfur.) |
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dbee
Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Location: korea
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:38 am Post subject: |
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pardon the detour, but i find it rather amusing that after Chavez's little tirade before the UN, Chomsky's 3 year old book jumped from #26,000 to the #1 spot on amazon.com
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I might be mistaken on this one, but I think most of his royalties go to humanitarian causes.
Although when I heard about Chavez's speech I was, frankly a little embarrassed that the guy did that in front of the UN. But seeing the number of reports in the US and other media, and seeing how many threads are dedicated to it in some ways on Daves, as well as the #1 for Chomsky's book on the bestseller list.
I'm beginning to think what the guy did may have been a stroke of genius. Sometimes, you need to scream and shout, so that people are able to hear you, over their mp3 players and xboxes. I hope that many American people and others around the world read that book, and that the debate on this issue is taken out of the UN and into the hearts and minds where it belongs ... [/quote] |
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-X-
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| dbee wrote: |
| Quote: |
pardon the detour, but i find it rather amusing that after Chavez's little tirade before the UN, Chomsky's 3 year old book jumped from #26,000 to the #1 spot on amazon.com
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I might be mistaken on this one, but I think most of his royalties go to humanitarian causes.
Although when I heard about Chavez's speech I was, frankly a little embarrassed that the guy did that in front of the UN. But seeing the number of reports in the US and other media, and seeing how many threads are dedicated to it in some ways on Daves, as well as the #1 for Chomsky's book on the bestseller list.
I'm beginning to think what the guy did may have been a stroke of genius. Sometimes, you need to scream and shout, so that people are able to hear you, over their mp3 players and xboxes. I hope that many American people and others around the world read that book, and that the debate on this issue is taken out of the UN and into the hearts and minds where it belongs ... |
hehe, ya my royalties comment wasnt serious.
you make a good point, though. its a great book and while it was sort of unorthodox to plug a product while speaking in front of the UN, i commend him for trying to open people's eyes and keep them informed of whats really going on out there.
Chomsky stuff is sometimes hard to read and a bit dry, and on occasion he throws around more obscure events like you should know them, but its still a very good read, well thought out, logical, and he has no problem calling a spade a spade...its just too bad it took a fiery speech from the pulpit to encourage people to go out and buy it. |
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