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yexey
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
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 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:21 am Post subject: How can they fire me? |
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Ok, long story short: my hagwons offering to "let me go" cos they've hired too many foreign teachers for too long. The problem is I dont wanna go and I told them that; I actually like the hagwon.
No more than that has been said, but I'm worried that they might try to dismiss me cos I'm not gonna show myself to the door. I haven't done anything that would allow them to dismiss me according to the "dismissal" section of the contract . But later there is a section of the contract that goes: "the employer or employee may cancel this contract with 30 days written notice."
Does anyone know whether this section would be over ruled by some other law (or could this clause be my undoing)?
Relatedly, is there a standard legal procedure for firing a foreign worker?
(sorry, that was actually a long story) |
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Paji eh Wong
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:32 am Post subject: |
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But later there is a section of the contract that goes: "the employer or employee may cancel this contract with 30 days written notice."
Does anyone know whether this section would be over ruled by some other law (or could this clause be my undoing)? |
From what I know, this clause IS the law. I believe you are entitled to 30 days notice before you are let go. If they want you to go, I don't think there is anything you can do. Besides, do you want to work somewhere where they don't want you?
Sorry. Good luck. Make sure you get a letter of release. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| Start looking for a new job, but let them fire you (or lay you off). It makes things so much easier. To be honest, I would accept their terms making sure I get a letter of reference and a letter of release. To be honest, it will be a lot less stress. Do you really want to work somewhere knowing they want to get rid of you! Your situation sucks, but in my opinion you are crazy to even consider staying. |
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Panic
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:22 am Post subject: |
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Well sorry to say that my experience of Korea is that you can and will be fired. If your school employs less than 5 people you can be fired with no reason given and you can't legally contest it. If your school employs 5 or more your director will vindictively invent reasons to fire you (usually after you have been fired). If you then go to the labor board and claim unfair dismissal this will prompt your director to fabricate a whole bunch of lies about your teaching performance. The standard practice is for the director to then bully all the Korean staff into signing their names to this fabrication. Thus it is highly unlikely you will ever be reinstated if you are ever fired in Korean Hakwon system.
Much to my frustration I have experienced this. It took my director 2 hours to bully all my Korean coworkers into signing in an emergency meeting after classes. I don't hold it against them as they wouldn't have been allowed to go home until they did.
Therefore my advice is to save your energy, say nothing and look for a better job to move on too. The best you can hope for is that your director doesn't give you 30 days notice as the Labor Board process for you receiving payment is not as open to manipulation.
Good Luck
Panic |
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BigBuds
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Location: Changwon
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| Panic wrote: |
| Well sorry to say that my experience of Korea is that you can and will be fired. If your school employs less than 5 people you can be fired with no reason given and you can't legally contest it. |
The law regarding having 5 employees no longer applies. It was changed a couple of years ago so you can legally contest it. If you read the labor laws you'll find an ammendment to it stating that the 5 employees rule no longer applies. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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There is a difference (technically) between getting fired and getting laid off. You are being laid off.
I have explained the difference to my students this way:
a) You are being fired because you are a lousy worker and we don't want you anymore.
b) You are being laid off because the company is having problems and can't afford to keep you, although you are a good worker and if things improve in the future for the company, we'll be happy to have you back. |
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poet13
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Location: Just over there....throwing lemons.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| So far it sounds like your relationship with them is amicable. Why not keep it that way? I know you've said you don't want to go, but after all is said and done, it is their business to protect and grow. If they are taking the high road (damn these cliches!) and being honest and up front with you, I think as a professional, you should follow them on it. If they decide to turn around and be sleazy about it, then by all means, get dirty too. |
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jlb
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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As long as they give you the letter or release, 30 days notice (or pay), a good reference letter and the portion of your bonus money you would be entitled to, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Just look for a new job, there are plenty of them out there, especially with a good recommendation from your old place.
Crappy, but that's life sometimes. Just be polite and don't get angry with your boss, whatever you do. Things will go downhill fast! |
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buymybook
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Location: Telluride
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Panic wrote: |
Well sorry to say that my experience of Korea is that you can and will be fired. If your school employs less than 5 people you can be fired with no reason given and you can't legally contest it. If your school employs 5 or more your director will vindictively invent reasons to fire you (usually after you have been fired). If you then go to the labor board and claim unfair dismissal this will prompt your director to fabricate a whole bunch of lies about your teaching performance. The standard practice is for the director to then bully all the Korean staff into signing their names to this fabrication. Thus it is highly unlikely you will ever be reinstated if you are ever fired in Korean Hakwon system.
Much to my frustration I have experienced this. It took my director 2 hours to bully all my Korean coworkers into signing in an emergency meeting after classes. I don't hold it against them as they wouldn't have been allowed to go home until they did.
Therefore my advice is to save your energy, say nothing and look for a better job to move on too. The best you can hope for is that your director doesn't give you 30 days notice as the Labor Board process for you receiving payment is not as open to manipulation.
Good Luck
Panic |
What a load of bull("can't legally contest it"). How can you explain that I went to civil court and sued my former employer(and won) for firing me illegally when they had 5 employees or less? |
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Panic
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| buymybook wrote: |
| What a load of bull("can't legally contest it"). How can you explain that I went to civil court and sued my former employer(and won) for firing me illegally when they had 5 employees or less? |
I guess the info I was given over a year ago via the free advice 1350 number was incorrect. At the time the lawyer I was in conference with using a translator seemed very adamant that I could not contest being fired for arguing because the school didn't have 5 employees. I argued about being short paid for my 1st month of work and never imagined I would get fired for it.
I'm glad to hear Korea's labor laws aren't as cruel as I was led to believe.
Curious to know if you received financial compensation or gained reinstatement for your victory in civil court BuyMyBook? |
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cuckoococoon
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| Start looking for a new job, but let them fire you (or lay you off). It makes things so much easier. To be honest, I would accept their terms making sure I get a letter of reference and a letter of release. To be honest, it will be a lot less stress. Do you really want to work somewhere knowing they want to get rid of you! Your situation sucks, but in my opinion you are crazy to even consider staying. |
I AGREE! It sounds like this boss is in a bind and wants to do the right thing. LET THEM! Take the package, get a letter. Find another job. PM me if you want advice on a good school.
I know I know I know about the laws regarding schools doing whatever it is schools do... but the 'bad' ones bank on you not doing anything about it. Let's face it, most of us don't. (but good for you if you do... that will teach them!) |
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buymybook
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Location: Telluride
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| Panic wrote: |
| buymybook wrote: |
| What a load of bull("can't legally contest it"). How can you explain that I went to civil court and sued my former employer(and won) for firing me illegally when they had 5 employees or less? |
I guess the info I was given over a year ago via the free advice 1350 number was incorrect. At the time the lawyer I was in conference with using a translator seemed very adamant that I could not contest being fired for arguing because the school didn't have 5 employees. I argued about being short paid for my 1st month of work and never imagined I would get fired for it.
I'm glad to hear Korea's labor laws aren't as cruel as I was led to believe.
Curious to know if you received financial compensation or gained reinstatement for your victory in civil court BuyMyBook? |
I now must try to get my money. They have been/are being charged 20% interest on thousands of dollars. I'm earning $200 + interest each month they don't pay. Because of that they owe me $2.400 + more than my lawsuit
Just contacted a free Attorney and said they will help me with "Coercive distraint," whatever that is?
We'll see if I ever get my money. I know I can do put a lien against there property until they pay or the court sells their property.
Maybe the coercive distraint is a lien?
You/they/1350 is/are right to an extent about the size of the haggy but that doesn't stop the labor dept/ministry from ruling on the case at which time if they rule in your favor you can use that ruling in the civil court.
The labor minstry will advise you(in the decision paper) to go to civil court if they rule in your favor and can't help you further.
It is not a great experience nor speedy. It took/taking me 2 years + |
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justin moffatt
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:29 am Post subject: |
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HEY BUYMYBOOK:
Can you provide me the contact number for that free lawyer? Could use some advice on my concerns with a Korean company. Thanks. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| To be honest, I would accept their terms making sure I get a letter of reference and a letter of release. |
That is your best course of action.
Part on good terms, get a reference letter and find another good job. |
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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| I'm not one to be somewhere where I'm not wanted.. plenty of other jobs. Find and take one. |
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