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Atassi
Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Location: 평택
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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:27 am Post subject: |
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You answered exactly what should have been done differently. Thank you.
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| Well again it is more complicated than that . Zionism isn't a good idea , not an evil idea just not a good one. Israel is a mistake a well intentioned mistake , but nevertheless a mistake. |
All of these "mistakes" will unfortunately continue to cost everyone a lot of headache. Almost every decision is regrettable.
I believe that it won't stop until this reality is really faced up to. It has yet to be done, and it's maybe too difficult to do. Unfortunate. |
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EFLtrainer

Joined: 04 May 2005
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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| some waygug-in wrote: |
It implies nothing of the kind. It says there was a failure to stop the aircraft, which there was. Then it asks why. Simple enough?
The only one implying a stand down is you. |
It implies that there was a stand down and that there were explosives in the tower.
Both not true. |
Your proof? You are calling the seismograph at Columbia University a liar? You are calling all those firemen describing the explosions liars? |
See screw loose change.
Oh now you have joined the 9-11 conspraicy team. Ok not suprised. |
Ask a question, become a conspiracy nut. Fine world you live in JooDumbya. |
make accusations join with those who make them like Jeff Rense and David Icke - become a conspiracy nut. |
Asking a question is making an accusation?
Idiot. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| keep making charges is not just asking questions |
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EFLtrainer

Joined: 04 May 2005
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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| keep making charges is not just asking questions |
Show me the charges, dumbass. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/
The third ten minute segment of the movie mostly concerns the 9-11 Commission report.
Another odd bit: As New York City Mayor Bloomberg begins his testimony, one of the JGs says, "We begged and pleaded that people should be put under oath." This is just a poor choice from the filmmakers, because what could Bloomberg have to hide? If you recall he wasn't even mayor when 9-11 happened, he was just a candidate for the office. "At the beginning they were not...."
So subsequently they were? Sheesh, you got your way and you're still griping?
Next we get into the crappola about Phillip Zelikow. The movie makes it seem like the Jersey Girls did some crack investigative work.
Kristen Breitweiser: "We have found out that not only did he serve on the transition team for the Bush Administration, that he was a person who wrote a draft memo for the setup of the Bush Administration's National Security Council, that he was an individual who wrote the preemptive war strategy that was eventually used for the war in Iraq, that he's a close friend of Condoleezza Rice's, we want him to resign."
One thing that is soft-played in this film (but it's not hard to read between the lines) is that the Jersey Girls and many of the other family members portrayed in this film are also anti-war activists, who not only opposed the war in Iraq, but also the one in Afghanistan. While informing us of the supposed conflict of interest of Zelikow, the filmmakers make no effort to advise us of conflicts of interest for the family members.
At about 22:00 we hear griping that the commission was not being given the information they needed. Immediate afterwards, there is a complaint that too much information was provided. Somewhat reminiscent of the complaint the two grandmothers had about the food at the nursing home:
Grandma 1: The food here is terrible.
Grandma 2: And such small portions!
Then we get the complaint that classified documents were only viewed by two of the commission members: Republican Zelikow and Democrat Jamie Gorelick. More sinister music, and "At that point I knew the fix was in."
Classified information is classified for a reason. Revealing it to one Republican and one Democrat strikes me as a common sense solution. But of course to the conspiracy nutbars, the Democrats are just as likely to be involved in the coverup as the Republicans. I don't quite know where they get this idiotic notion, but it seems to be pretty pervasive.
Hilariously, the mockumentary goes on to present its first administration hero; Richard Clarke. Never mind that Clarke admitted that he failed in his responsibility to protect the nation from terrorism. He's a hero because he apologized for his mistakes.
Then we get griping about how President Bush and Vice President Cheney insisted on meeting with the commission together, in private, and not under oath. More creepy music. More griping about them not being under oath. But of course if you really believe that Bush was lying about 9-11, do you think that being under oath would change that?
Then the 9-11 Commission Report was issued and we get more griping about that. It didn't answer my questions, complains one of the JGs. What questions were unanswered? They don't specify, but as we have already seen, most of the question that these people are asking have been answered. They just don't like the answers because they don't implicate Bush.
Then we get griping about the fact that the news media pretty much accepted the 9-11 Commission Report as doing a good job. Chris Matthews, hardly an administration shill, asks whether the families, "Can't deal with reality." A Newsweek editor says that the families seem unable to accept that there was no way the attacks could have been stopped. Good thinking, but of course, that's not what the movie wants us to think.
We get griping that the news media, "Failed again and again to connect the dots." Another little aside to the conspiracy crowd. One of the women says that she was hoping for another Woodward and Bernstein. Let me guess, that would result in the impeachment of the President? Is it obvious that's what this is really all about--that the Jersey Girls wanted heads to roll?
Ah, but the Woodward and Bernstein did arise, in the person of Paul Thompson, the man behind this movie. Amusingly one of the women comments that "He would back it up with links to mainstream media sources..." just as the video shows this: |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| keep making charges is not just asking questions |
Show me the charges, dumbass. |
MOONBAT |
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EFLtrainer

Joined: 04 May 2005
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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/
The third ten minute segment of the movie mostly concerns the 9-11 Commission report... |
Is all that tripe you copied supposed to prove *I* have made charges, dumbass? On Iraq and Afghanistan, there are no charges to be made: we know the lies, cover-ups, etc, are real.
With regard to 9/11, I have not stated an opinion nor made any charges. But there are a lot of anomolous issues and they should be vetted: that's what America is about. If it turns out there's nothing there, great. But the questions should be asked. |
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EFLtrainer

Joined: 04 May 2005
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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| keep making charges is not just asking questions |
Show me the charges, dumbass. |
MOONBAT |
Yes. READ it. Did I say accept and believe? I did not. Idiot. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="EFLtrainer"]
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/
The third ten minute segment of the movie mostly concerns the 9-11 Commission report... |
| Quote: |
| Is all that tripe you copied supposed to prove *I* have made charges, dumbass? On Iraq and Afghanistan, there are no charges to be made: we know the lies, cover-ups, etc, are real. |
Making charges. Moonbat . Tell us the lies and coverups
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| With regard to 9/11, I have not stated an opinion nor made any charges. But there are a lot of anomolous issues and they should be vetted: that's what America is about. If it turns out there's nothing there, great. But the questions should be asked. |
But the questions should be asked about the motivations of those making the charges. |
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EFLtrainer

Joined: 04 May 2005
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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee"]
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/
The third ten minute segment of the movie mostly concerns the 9-11 Commission report... |
| Quote: |
| Is all that tripe you copied supposed to prove *I* have made charges, dumbass? On Iraq and Afghanistan, there are no charges to be made: we know the lies, cover-ups, etc, are real. |
Making charges. Moonbat . Tell us the lies and coverups
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| With regard to 9/11, I have not stated an opinion nor made any charges. But there are a lot of anomolous issues and they should be vetted: that's what America is about. If it turns out there's nothing there, great. But the questions should be asked. |
But the questions should be asked about the motivations of those making the charges. |
You still have not shown a single charge I have made. Enough deflection: cant win, claim the guy is a moonbat. You are the moobat. You have zero understanding of the difference between fact and supposition; zero understanding of what principles the US was founded on; zero understanding of the application of simple logic.
You are worse than a moonbat, you are a joke and a disgrace to any even slightly intelligent or patriotic American.
Enough. Keep re-posting the same links with the same suppositions that you characterize as facts.
Do you think the US would even exist today without the questioning of authority?
You're a fool. You give up the rights you worked hard (cough) to get out of fear. Fear provided by the Cadre that began back in the seventies with Plan B. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| You still have not shown a single charge I have made |
.
Looks like a charge
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| Enough deflection: cant win, claim the guy is a moonbat. You are the moobat. |
I win all the time against you you whack job
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| You have zero understanding of the difference between fact and supposition; zero understanding of what principles the US was founded on; zero understanding of the application of simple logic. |
all I know is that you resent the US government more than you do Al Qaida and you see think the Patriot act is worse than 10 9-11's.
Interesting since the US there have been no 9-11 since the Patriot act which of course means nothing to you cause you would rather have 10 of them instead.
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| You are worse than a moonbat, you are a joke and a disgrace to any even slightly intelligent or patriotic American. |
That is coming from you who makes war on the US government while the US is at war.
You are nothing more than domestic Al Qeada.
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| Enough. Keep re-posting the same links with the same suppositions that you characterize as facts. |
Again they answer the quesitons but you would rather go with the conspiracy stuff. Why don't you show there was a conspiracy to blow up the WTC by the government and if the links are so useless then why don't you disprove them you moonbat sicko.
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| Do you think the US would even exist today without the questioning of authority? |
no , do you think we ought not also question the motives those who question the US ?
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| You're a fool. You give up the rights you worked hard (cough) to get out of fear. Fear provided by the Cadre that began back in the seventies with Plan B. |
[/quote]
What rights have I lost.
All you do is war on the US government who you resent more that Al Qeada - I would rather have 10 9-11 than the Patriot act - trainer. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Atassi wrote: |
You answered exactly what should have been done differently. Thank you.
| Quote: |
| Well again it is more complicated than that . Zionism isn't a good idea , not an evil idea just not a good one. Israel is a mistake a well intentioned mistake , but nevertheless a mistake. |
All of these "mistakes" will unfortunately continue to cost everyone a lot of headache. Almost every decision is regrettable.
I believe that it won't stop until this reality is really faced up to. It has yet to be done, and it's maybe too difficult to do. Unfortunate. |
Facing up to reality since what is done is done is for the Palestinian side to accept Bill Clinton's peace plan. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| That's a hell of an accusation. At least these conspiracy theorists bring with them evidence that something's not right. Claiming that they are a bunch of Americans and others hoping to overthrow the US is baseless. If anyone wishes to prove them wrong, then we should use logic and evidence to do so. |
rense.com
whatreallhappened
The American free press.
Holocaust deniers
Case closed.
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Khomeini vs. saddam, Afghanistan vs. the Soviets, blah blah.....
The US placed a dictator in Iran (the Shah), Khomeini takes over, Khomeini hates the US, the US blames Iran, Iran blames the US.....Both sides clearly did wrong things. |
That is not true. the US didn't go after Khomeni , Khomeni went after the US. learn your history
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| The Soviets invade Afghanistan, Afghans and others resist and fight back, the country is leveled (basically), 1-1.5 million Afghans perish at the hands of the Soviets, the world just watches. The Soviets withdraw, the country is never developed, drug lords are allowed to flourish, the Taliban come in, 75% of the world's poppy sources are completely irradicated, the Taliban make their own mistakes, 9-11, we know what happens, new government, new drug lords, same old drug trade, same misery for the people. |
what is it the US is wrong for supporting Afghanstan against the Soviets or is it the world just watches?
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| Did we really help Afghans that much when the Soviets invaded? Most of the bravest fighters died at the hands of the Soviets. Many women and children suffered the same fate. The Russians were ruthless, and the people suffered. Why is the argument over whether or not the US should have stood by and done nothing back then? Is non-western blood that cheap? Yes, Russia was to blame for the war, but the Afghans deserve more from us... |
what is your point ? |
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Atassi
Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Location: 평택
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
rense.com
whatreallhappened
The American free press.
Holocaust deniers
Case closed.
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Hardly.
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| That is not true. the US didn't go after Khomeni , Khomeni went after the US. learn your history |
Unfortunately, Khomeini was justified in doing so.
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| what is it the US is wrong for supporting Afghanstan against the Soviets or is it the world just watches? |
Nobody gave a damn about the suffering of Afghanistan. Nobody, except the fighters that went their. Was Rambo one of them?
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| what is your point ? |
My point was that it was damn insensitive to talk about whether or not we should have helped Afghanistan or not. We didn't do much, and they suffered more than anyone here can or cares to imagine.
You're a little late to ask what my point is, as the conversation had already moved on. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| huffdaddy wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
They have killed many Americans and will do so again. Besides they are doing things they ought not to be. Ought the US just let'em do it?
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When did I ever suggest that? As I've said, time and time again, action for the sake of action is superfluous and impudent. Aiding Saddam, Khomeni, and Afghan terrorists were not reasonable measures. Invading Iraq as we did was not a reasonable measure. That doesn't mean that the only other choice was nothing. |
Helping Saddam against Khomeni was understandable.
Helping Afghanistan against the Soviets was understandable. And not all of the Afghanistan groups the US were terrorists. Easy for you to monday morning QB this one. Maybe the Korean war wasn't a reasonable measure.
By the way if Gorbchov or someone like him never came around then supporting Afghanistan against the Soviets would certainly have been a reasonable measure. |
First, the Soviet threat to the US was overhyped. Secondly, what US interests did Afghanistan represent? Third, what assistance and training to the Afghan groups has trickled down into the current AQ regime? Fourth, has much resentment was created against the US by pulling their support after the Soviets left? Sure, some of things things were unpredictable back in the early 80's. But some of them should have been taken into consideration.
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| As for invading Iraq the sancitons were failing and the mideast the way it was and is was a threat to the US. 9-11 was the proof. |
Saddam didn't create 9-11. Even if he had contacts, AQ pulled it off on their own. So no, 9-11 doesn't prove anything about mideast security. It did prove something about US security though. Going after AQ and OBL in Afghanistan was a good idea. But it has been a half-assed effort. The record poppy harvest is proof that the US has only minimal control of the country. So is the fact that OBL, mastermind of 9-11, is free and roaming around somewhere in the area. That's a mistake.
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| What you are doing is monday morning Quarterbacking. |
It's called history. Learning from history. If you're unwilling to admit your mistakes from the past, you're destined to repeat them. Failing to admit them is ignorance. And those who can't identify and admit their mistakes shouldn't be running the country.
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| The US was right in WWII , correct most of the time during the cold war. |
Agreed. See how much BS we put up from Germany before finally getting involved. See how much BS we put up from the Soviets and never got involved in a direct conflict. Prudence and foresight. Something lacking in your Machavallian raison d'etre.
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| and right for seeing Bathists , Khomeni supporters and Bin Laden followers as fascist bigots. And the US is right to deal with them as the enemy. |
Enemies, sure. Allies, no. Providing chemical weapons to Saddam. Weapons to Khomeni. Weapons and training to lawless Afghanis. All bad moves. Again look at WWII and the Cold War wrt dealing with enemies.
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| Why don't you tell us what the US ought to have done in those circumstances , then I can show you the negatives of your course of action. |
Let Saddam and Khomeni beat themselves up. Not sell chemical weapons to Saddam. Not sell weapons to Khomeni. Let the Soviets beat on Afghanistan. |
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