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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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 Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Gopher,
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| Your constant allegation that I am mindlessly caught up in patriotism fails to acknowledge that, even if it were so (and, in my case at least, it is not), you and posters like dbee are equally mindlessly caught up in oppositionism and antiEstablishmentism. |
I am proud to be anti-establishment. Sceptics, muckrakers and intelligent questioning are (and I say this for the zillionth time), the Earth of American, and if there is such an abstraction, the Free world. I have a valid toe hold of land to stand on, patriotism, blindness, doesn't and it drowns again and again and again in its own bloodbath.
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| I know that your m.o. is to keep attn focused on U.S. depravity. So this means you must constantly hurl new and improved allegations to distract us from the fact that you cannot back up the original allegations -- in this case, Chavez's coup allegations. But, for once, stay on point, please. |
The point is Gopher, that when a country has a verified record of obstructing the democratic and free will of other nations (both overtly and covertly), you have to lean on that being the case when there is evidence that suggests it and the country effected cries this............To do otherwise is to fall for the trap ALL governments would wish us to believe. The perfect recent example being weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The trap??? --- You have no proof otherwise, so it must be true (or insert NOT be true). Crazy logic and the way criminals see the world.........if I can do the crime and nobody knows anything -- Hey! I didn't do it! smirk smirk....this is the MO with covert operations/governments also....
That you fall for this line of though, only again pins you to the proverbial
National Democratic Party's Office....
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But then you have never read Immerman, Gleijeses, or Cullather -- indeed, you summarily dismiss them above -- so how would you even appreciate this point? |
I will have to read them -- but this ain't no way to argue your case. Just because I haven't read the bible or koran, doesn't mean I can't appreciate the fact their might or might not be a god above or below...........but how could you ever appreciate my point? -- you've never read Canetti, Bowering, Steiner or Rexroth??? 
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| Please be advised: the correct plural for "modus operandi" is "modi operandi." |
Is this a terror alert? Is it orange or yellow? Actually, it highlights a difference between our two "paradigms", perspectives.
I prefer to use language and to think with a view to the outcome! it is how things are received that is of import. People, community and convention of use, point to "modus" . I am of the earth. Life issuing.
You are of standards. Damn everything else reasonable. If it isn't of a certain box or container, it isn't of use or worth. ?Tautology is all important to you......I don't believe in it. You are like the guy who would throw away the gift because it was bought by an enemy. I'd use the gift and see what might come of that acceptance. You are of concrete, rules, order, decorum....no life there, only rote response.
DD
PS> the plural of Gopher is Gofus........... |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Your constant allegation that I am mindlessly caught up in patriotism fails to acknowledge that, even if it were so (and, in my case at least, it is not), you and posters like dbee are equally mindlessly caught up in oppositionism and antiEstablishmentism. |
I am proud to be anti-establishment. Sceptics, muckrakers and intelligent questioning are (and I say this for the zillionth time), the Earth of American, and if there is such an abstraction, the Free world. I have a valid toe hold of land to stand on, patriotism, blindness, doesn't and it drowns again and again and again in its own bloodbath. |
Think of Kuhnian theory on scientific revolutions and "paradigms." Or think of Levi-Strauss, The Savage Mind.
Any interpretative structure (or political ideology, or perhaps, especially a political ideology) is nothing more than that: an interpretive structure. No more or less valid than any other. Indeed, usually arbitrarily-derived. This includes your vaunted antiEstablishmentism and oppositionism -- which it not so arbitrarily-derived as inasmuch as it derives from a bitterly cynical take on the United States and its role in world affairs, and a deeply-conditioned one at that.
After all, do not dbee, conspiracy-obsessives like some-waygukin, and the rest of the antiAmerican, Chavez groupies respond as precisely as expected anytime Chavez [or bin Laden or Hezbollah or the Iranian president, for that matter] rings his little bell, and then say exactly the things they have been so well conditioned to say?
| dbee wrote: |
Good work chavez!
Any foreign government that tries to interfere in another countries democratic election should be stopped in their tracks. Especially in a country which has so recently experienced a CIA sponsored coup attempt. |
| dbee wrote: |
...He's a huge step in the right direction, for a continent that had become a CIA playground -- destroying millions of lives [by the way, did you catch that number, in the plural, directly attributed to CIA?] in the last century.
Lets [sic] not even start to discuss state-run media. |
| dbee wrote: |
| ...congressional committee hearings ... ? pls ... You might as well be asking Saddam Hussein to oversee a Kurdish cultural revival. |
...the list goes on.
You and the others, then, who hold your antiEstablishmentism, oppositionism, bitter cynicism, or just plain conspiracy-nutedness out as if you have a better "toe hold of land to stand on" than anyone else are doing so (a) in ignorance or (b) in craftiness and evasiness. The truth is, most who hold such views are most likely just oppositionist, cynical, and unhappy by nature.
Also, I take your descent into other topics above as yet another indication and indeed tacit admission that you are unable to speak on specifics on the Chavez allegations. All I ask is that those who make specific allegations present specific, direct-bearing evidence and data...not a recitation of the party line on the merits or -- as you assert or at least imply -- the superiority of an oppositionist perspective on the United States and its role in world affairs. |
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