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An Apology from a Bush Voter
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Joined: 09 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:53 am    Post subject: An Apology from a Bush Voter Reply with quote

AN APOLOGY FROM A BUSH VOTER
By Doug McIntyre
Host, McIntyre in the Morning
Talk Radio 790 KABC

There?s nothing harder in public life than admitting you?re wrong. By the way, admitting you?re wrong can be even tougher in private life. If you don?t believe me, just ask Bill Clinton or Charlie Sheen. But when you go out on the limb in public, it?s out there where everyone can see it, or in my case, hear it.

So, I?m saying today, I was wrong to have voted for George W. Bush. In historic terms, I believe George W. Bush is the worst two-term President in the history of the country. Worse than Grant. I also believe a case can be made that he?s the worst President, period.

In 2000, I was a McCain guy. I wasn?t sure about the Texas Governor. He had name recognition and a lot of money behind him, but other than that? What? Still, I was sick of all the Clinton shenanigans and the thought of President Gore was? unthinkable. So, GWB became my guy.

For the first few months he was just flubbing along like most new Presidents, no great shakes, but no disasters either. He cut taxes and I like tax cuts.

Then September 11th happened. September 11th changed everything for me, like it did for so many of you. After September 11th, all the intramural idiocy of American politics stopped being funny. We had been attacked by a vicious and determined enemy and it was time for all of us to row in the same direction.

And we did for the blink of an eye. I believed the President when he said we were going to hunt down Bin Laden and all those responsible for the 9-11 murders. I believed President Bush when he said we would go after the terrorists and the nations that harbored them.

I supported the President when he sent our troops into Afghanistan, after all, that?s where the Taliban was, that?s where al-Qaida trained the killers, that?s where Bin Laden was.

And I cheered when we quickly toppled the Taliban government, but winced when we let Bin Laden escape from Tora-Bora.

Then, the talk turned to Iraq and I winced again.

I thought the connection to 9-11 was sketchy at best. But Colin Powell impressed me at the UN, and Tony Blair was in, and after all, he was a Clinton guy, not a Bush guy, so I thought the case had to be strong. I was worried though, because I had read the Wolfowitz paper, ?The Project for the New American Century.? It?s been around since ?92, and it raised alarm bells because it was based on a theory, ?Democratizing the Middle East? and I prefer pragmatism over theory. I was worried because Iraq was being justified on a radical new basis, ?pre-emptive war.? Any time we do something without historical precedent I get nervous.

But the President shifted the argument to WMDs and the urgent threat of Iraq getting atomic weapons. The debate turned to Saddam passing nukes on to terror groups. After 9-11, the risk was too great. As the President said, ?The next smoking gun might be a mushroom cloud.? At least that?s what I thought at the time.

I grew up in New York and watched them build the World Trade Center. I worked with a guy, Frank O?Brien, who put the elevators in both towers. I lost a very close friend on September 11th. 103 floor, tower one, Cantor Fitzgerald. Tim Coughlin was his name. If we had to take out Iraq to make sure something like that, or worse, never happened again, so be it. I knew the consequences. We have a soldier in our house. None of this was theoretical in my house.

But in the months and years since shock and awe I have been shocked repeatedly by a consistent litany of excuses, alibis, double-talk, inaccuracies, bogus predictions, and flat out lies. I have watched as the President and his administration changed the goals, redefined the reasons for going into Iraq, and fumbled the good will of the world and the focus necessary to catch the real killers of September 11th.

I have watched the President say the commanders on the ground will make the battlefield decisions, and the war won?t be run from Washington. Yet, politics has consistently determined what the troops can and can?t do on the ground and any commander who did not go along with the administration was sacked, and in some cases, maligned.

I watched and tried to justify the looting in Iraq after the fall of Saddam. I watched and tried to justify the dismantling of the entire Iraqi army. I tired to explain the complexities of building a functional new Iraqi army. I urged patience when no WMDs were found. Then the Vice President told us we were in the ?waning days of the insurgency.? And I started wincing again. The President says we have to stay the course but what if it?s the wrong course?

It was the wrong course. All of it was wrong. We are not on the road to victory. We?re about to slink home with our tail between our legs, leaving civil war in Iraq and a nuclear armed Iran in our wake. Bali was bombed. Madrid was bombed. London was bombed. And Bin Laden is still making tapes. It?s unspeakable. The liberal media didn?t create this reality, bad policy did.

Most historians believe it takes 30-50 years before we get a reasonably accurate take on a President?s place in history. So, maybe 50 years from now Iraq will be a peaceful member of the brotherhood of nations and George W. Bush will be celebrated as a visionary genius.

But we don?t live fifty years in the future. We live now. We have to make public policy decisions now. We have to live with the consequences of the votes we cast and the leaders we chose now.

After five years of carefully watching George W. Bush I?ve reached the conclusion he?s either grossly incompetent, or a hand puppet for a gaggle of detached theorists with their own private view of how the world works. Or both.

Presidential failures. James Buchanan, Franklin Pierce, Jimmy Carter, Warren Harding-? the competition is fierce for the worst of the worst. Still, the damage this President has done is enormous. It will take decades to undo, and that?s assuming we do everything right from now on. His mistakes have global implications, while the other failed Presidents mostly authored domestic embarrassments.

And speaking of domestic embarrassments, let?s talk for a minute about President Bush?s domestic record. Yes, he cut taxes. But tax cuts combined with reckless spending and borrowing is criminal mismanagement of the public?s money. We?re drunk at the mall with our great grandchildren?s credit cards. Whatever happened to the party of fiscal responsibility?

Bush created a giant new entitlement, the prescription drug plan. He lied to his own party to get it passed. He lied to the country about its true cost. It was written by and for the pharmaceutical industry. It helps nobody except the multinationals that lobbied for it. So much for smaller government. In fact, virtually every tentacle of government has grown exponentially under Bush. Unless, of course, it was an agency to look after the public interest, or environmental protection, and/or worker?s rights.

I?ve talked so often about the border issue, I won?t bore you with a rehash. It?s enough to say this President has been a catastrophe for the wages of working people; he?s debased the work ethic itself. ?Jobs Americans won?t do!? He doesn?t believe in the sovereign borders of the country he?s sworn to protect and defend. And his devotion to cheap labor for his corporate benefactors, along with his worship of multinational trade deals, makes an utter mockery of homeland security in a post 9-11 world. The President?s January 7th, 2004 speech on immigration, his first trial balloon on his guest worker scheme, was a deal breaker for me. I couldn?t and didn?t vote for him in 2004. And I?m glad I didn?t.

Katrina, Harriet Myers, The Dubai Port Deal, skyrocketing gas prices, shrinking wages for working people, staggering debt, astronomical foreign debt, outsourcing, open borders, contempt for the opinion of the American people, the war on science, media manipulation, faith based initives, a cavalier attitude toward fundamental freedoms-- this President has run the most arrogant and out-of-touch administration in my lifetime, perhaps, in any American?s lifetime.

You can make a case that Abraham Lincoln did what he had to do, the public be damned. If you roll the dice on your gut and you?re right, history remembers you well. But, when your gut led you from one business failure to another, when your gut told you to trade Sammy Sosa to the White Sox, and you use the same gut to send our sons and daughters to fight and die in a distraction from the real war on terror, then history will and should be unapologetic in its condemnation.

None of this, by the way, should be interpreted as an endorsement of the opposition party. The Democrats are equally bankrupt. This is the second crime of our age. Again, historically speaking, its times like these when America needs a vibrant opposition to check the power of a run-amuck majority party. It requires it. It doesn?t work without one. Like the high and low tides keep the oceans alive, a healthy, positive opposition offers a path back to the center where all healthy societies live.

Tragically, the Democrats have allowed crackpots, leftists and demagogic cowards to snipe from the sidelines while taking no responsibility for anything. In fairness, I don?t believe a Democrat president would have gone into Iraq. Unfortunately, I don?t know if President Gore would have gone into Afghanistan. And that?s one of the many problems with the Democrats.

The two party system has always been clumsy and imperfect, but it has only collapsed once, in the 1850s, and the result was civil war.

I believe, as I have said countless times, the two party system is on the brink of a second collapse. It?s currently running on spin, anger, revenge, and pots and pots and pots of money.

We?re being governed by paper-mache patriots; brightly painted red, white and blue, but hollow to the core. Both parties have mastered the cynical arts of media manipulation and fund raising. They?ve learned the lessons of Watergate and burn the tapes. They have learned to divide the nation for their own gain. They have demonstrated the willingness to exploit any tragedy for personal advantage. The contempt they have for the American people is without parallel.

This is painful to say, and I?m sure for many of you, painful to read. But it?s impossible to heal the country until we?re willing to acknowledge the truth no matter how painful. We have to wean ourselves off sugar coated partisan lies.

With a belated tip of the cap to Ralph Nader, the system is broken, so broken, it?s almost inevitable it pukes up the Al Gores and George W. Bushes. Where are the Trumans and the Eisenhowers? Where are the men and women of vision and accomplishment? Why do we have to settle for recycled hacks and malleable ciphers? Greatness is always rare, but is basic competence and simple honesty too much to ask?

It may be decades before we have the full picture of how paranoid and contemptuous this administration has been. And I am open to the possibility that I?m all wet about everything I?ve just said. But I?m putting it out there, because I have to call it as I see it, and this is how I see it today. I don?t say any of this lightly. I?ve thought about this for months and months. But eventually, the weight of evidence takes on a gravitational force of its own.

I believe that George W. Bush has taken us down a terrible road. I don?t believe the Democrats are offering an alternative. That means we?re on our own to save this magnificent country. The United States of America is a gift to the world, but it has been badly abused and it?s rightful owners, We the People, had better step up to the plate and reclaim it before the damage becomes irreparable.

So, accept my apology for allowing partisanship to blind me to an obvious truth; our President is incapable of the tasks he is charged with. I almost feel sorry for him. He is clearly in over his head. Yet, he doesn?t generate the sympathy Warren Harding earned. Harding, a spectacular mediocrity, had the self-knowledge to tell any and all he shouldn?t be President. George W. Bush continues to act the part, but at this point whose buying the act?

Does this make me a waffler? A flip-flopper? Maybe, although I prefer to call it realism. And, for those of you who never supported Bush, its also fair to accuse me of kicking Bush while he?s down. After all, you were kicking him while he was up.

You were right, I was wrong.
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was an interesting read. It had me recalling how many seemingly intelligent Americans I knew in 2002/3 who were really caught up with Bush and what he was doing. They couldn't (at least at that time) seem able to consider the arguments against Bush policies. I remember generally feeling dismayed each time I talked with one of them, feeling they were giving their support to bloody disaster. I can't help wondering how they feel about him now. It seemed to be then, as it does now, UTTER MADNESS. Crying or Very sad
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Because We Could
Thomas L. Friedman
New York Times Op-Ed Columnist


The failure of the Bush team to produce any weapons of mass destruction (W.M.D.'s) in Iraq is becoming a big, big story. But is it the real story we should be concerned with? No. It was the wrong issue before the war, and it's the wrong issue now.

Why? Because there were actually four reasons for this war: the real reason, the right reason, the moral reason and the stated reason.

The "real reason" for this war, which was never stated, was that after 9/11 America needed to hit someone in the Arab-Muslim world. Afghanistan wasn't enough because a terrorism bubble had built up over there � a bubble that posed a real threat to the open societies of the West and needed to be punctured. This terrorism bubble said that plowing airplanes into the World Trade Center was O.K., having Muslim preachers say it was O.K. was O.K., having state-run newspapers call people who did such things "martyrs" was O.K. and allowing Muslim charities to raise money for such "martyrs" was O.K. Not only was all this seen as O.K., there was a feeling among radical Muslims that suicide bombing would level the balance of power between the Arab world and the West, because we had gone soft and their activists were ready to die.

The only way to puncture that bubble was for American soldiers, men and women, to go into the heart of the Arab-Muslim world, house to house, and make clear that we are ready to kill, and to die, to prevent our open society from being undermined by this terrorism bubble. Smashing Saudi Arabia or Syria would have been fine. But we hit Saddam for one simple reason: because we could, and because he deserved it and because he was right in the heart of that world. And don't believe the nonsense that this had no effect. Every neighboring government � and 98 percent of terrorism is about what governments let happen � got the message. If you talk to U.S. soldiers in Iraq they will tell you this is what the war was about.
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The real reasons for going to Iraq were clearly stated on a prominent neocon website in 1997. They discussed the economic benefits and Iraq's large oil resources. There was no mention of terrorism at that time.

The same goes for Afganistan. About a month prior to the 911 attack, the US warned the Europeans they were considering military action in Afghanistan. This was because up until that time the US had pretty much given the Taliban their backing, but the Taliban hadn't lived up to their end of the deal giving US oil companies the right to use their country to pipe Caspian oil. All this has been written about in the mainstream press, incase you are thinking it's a wild BB conspiracy theory. Wink

Suddenly come 911 the US had a fabulous new excuse. Terrorisim.

And don't forget that we were going to go there to liberate the ladies from their Burkas! Right. Confused
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big_Bird wrote:


The same goes for Afganistan. About a month prior to the 911 attack, the US warned the Europeans they were considering military action in Afghanistan. This was because up until that time the US had pretty much given the Taliban their backing, but the Taliban hadn't lived up to their end of the deal giving US oil companies the right to use their country to pipe Caspian oil. All this has been written about in the mainstream press, incase you are thinking it's a wild BB conspiracy theory. Wink

Suddenly come 911 the US had a fabulous new excuse. Terrorisim.

And don't forget that we were going to go there to liberate the ladies from their Burkas! Right. Confused


yeah, i look forward to links to articles by the mainstream press.. thanks in advance.
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
Big_Bird wrote:


The same goes for Afganistan. About a month prior to the 911 attack, the US warned the Europeans they were considering military action in Afghanistan. This was because up until that time the US had pretty much given the Taliban their backing, but the Taliban hadn't lived up to their end of the deal giving US oil companies the right to use their country to pipe Caspian oil. All this has been written about in the mainstream press, incase you are thinking it's a wild BB conspiracy theory. Wink

Suddenly come 911 the US had a fabulous new excuse. Terrorisim.

And don't forget that we were going to go there to liberate the ladies from their Burkas! Right. Confused


yeah, i look forward to links to articles by the mainstream press.. thanks in advance.


Too late. This was all heavily discussed in UK/Europe at the time...but not in the US mainstream press. You could do a search for this in The Guardian or UK Independent newspapers, and probably some of the online English edition European newspapers. If you're good at searches and you dig long enough, you'll find it. But I haven't got the time or inclination to provide the links...especially as only a few here will appreciate them. But you are welcome to. I particularly remember The Guardian discussing the US warning in August 2001 to Europe (at least twice - as in two seperate 'timezones' i.e. prewar, and sometime more recently), but I also recall seeing it written about in another paper (can't remember which one).
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Boodleheimer



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Location: working undercover for the Man

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

when was that Thomas L Friedman article published? was it before that study came out saying that terrorism and terrorists have actually become more powerful?
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's from 2003. And JRGR convientently leaves off the rest of the article.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/06/04/nyt.friedman/

(continued from JRGR's quote)

Quote:
The "right reason" for this war was the need to partner with Iraqis, post-Saddam, to build a progressive Arab regime. Because the real weapons of mass destruction that threaten us were never Saddam's missiles. The real weapons that threaten us are the growing number of angry, humiliated young Arabs and Muslims, who are produced by failed or failing Arab states � young people who hate America more than they love life. Helping to build a decent Iraq as a model for others � and solving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict � are the necessary steps for defusing the ideas of mass destruction, which are what really threaten us.

The "moral reason" for the war was that Saddam's regime was an engine of mass destruction and genocide that had killed thousands of his own people, and neighbors, and needed to be stopped.

But because the Bush team never dared to spell out the real reason for the war, and (wrongly) felt that it could never win public or world support for the right reasons and the moral reasons, it opted for the stated reason: the notion that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction that posed an immediate threat to America. I argued before the war that Saddam posed no such threat to America, and had no links with Al Qaeda, and that we couldn't take the nation to war "on the wings of a lie." I argued that Mr. Bush should fight this war for the right reasons and the moral reasons. But he stuck with this W.M.D. argument for P.R. reasons.

Once the war was over and I saw the mass graves and the true extent of Saddam's genocidal evil, my view was that Mr. Bush did not need to find any W.M.D.'s to justify the war for me. I still feel that way. But I have to admit that I've always been fighting my own war in Iraq. Mr. Bush took the country into his war. And if it turns out that he fabricated the evidence for his war (which I wouldn't conclude yet), that would badly damage America and be a very serious matter.

But my ultimate point is this: Finding Iraq's W.M.D.'s is necessary to preserve the credibility of the Bush team, the neocons, Tony Blair and the C.I.A. But rebuilding Iraq is necessary to win the war. I won't feel one whit more secure if we find Saddam's W.M.D.'s, because I never felt he would use them on us. But I will feel terribly insecure if we fail to put Iraq onto a progressive path. Because if that doesn't happen, the terrorism bubble will reinflate and bad things will follow. Mr. Bush's credibility rides on finding W.M.D.'s, but America's future, and the future of the Mideast, rides on our building a different Iraq. We must not forget that.


JRGR, you keep trotting out this article and either fail to read the rest of it, or neglect to take into consideration. Namely these two quotes:

Saddam posed no such threat to America, and had no links with Al Qaeda, and that we couldn't take the nation to war "on the wings of a lie."

Mr. Bush took the country into his war. And if it turns out that he fabricated the evidence for his war (which I wouldn't conclude yet), that would badly damage America and be a very serious matter.


Care to withdraw your assessment that Saddam posed a threat to the US? Or that using WMDs as a cover for war was a wise move? Or shall we expect more hubris?
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ChuckECheese



Joined: 20 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big_Bird wrote:
That was an interesting read. It had me recalling how many seemingly intelligent Americans I knew in 2002/3 who were really caught up with Bush and what he was doing. They couldn't (at least at that time) seem able to consider the arguments against Bush policies. I remember generally feeling dismayed each time I talked with one of them, feeling they were giving their support to bloody disaster. I can't help wondering how they feel about him now. It seemed to be then, as it does now, UTTER MADNESS. Crying or Very sad


Well.... It seems that you had all the right answers back in 2002/2003. You being a non-American and just a spectator who had all the right answers and can predict the future of the American policies, I should have voted for you. But all I see is whining and complaining without having any intellectual solutions like a typical liberal.

I used to be an avid listener to the KABC talk show because it was very entertaining. I can�t stop laughing at mudsling between conservatives and liberals in that talk show though. Unlike the man (Doug McIntyre) who's just an entertainer in a radio talk show looking for higher rating to survive, I am not apologetic for voting for Bush. Despite all the problems today, if given the same choices between Bush vs. Gore and Bush vs. Kerry, I would vote for Bush all over again. It is just tragic and unfortunate that we didn�t have better candidates who really fit the job. And McIntyre said the history will judge this president in time (50 years?)

If I had it my way, I would say fvck the world and let other countries fend for themselves. Let�s just think about what would world be like without the United States doing what we do. Let�s evaluate the past history a bit over half century.

Wouldn�t you think that, without the American intervention, Europe as you know it today might be called Germany? Also, Asia might also be called Empire of Japan? What do you think? At the time, most Americans were against joining the WWII, but the Pear Harbor was attacked, and it changed the hearts and minds of Americans and we kicked some asses. And today, most of you are still speaking your native language and also able to biatch and complain about today�s issues.

With that said, was it a good decision for the Americans to kick some terrorists� asses and countries responsible for encouraging and promoting terrorist, and most importantly attacking America and killing many thousands of Americans? My answer is, �FVCK YEAH!!!!�

One important thing that most pea brain and short-sighted people don�t realize about Americans and its government is that we aren�t short-sighted like many insignificant countries who only think about the present tenses. Americans always think in terms of future tenses (50 � 100 years in the best interest of the country and its allies).

I am so sicken tired of people with pea brains talking about why America invaded Iraq. With their limited short-sightedness, they always say that it�s because of the OIL. Give me a break, you pea brains don�t realize it, but you think that the Middle East has the largest oil deposit in the world, right? Wrong!!!! The United States probably has the largest oil deposit in the world. People will probably ask me to prove it, but I won�t. I�ll just tell you why though. Again, the U.S. is always thinking in terms of 50-100 years and beyond for our future generations. You know something called Alaska right? It�s our strategic oil reserve for the rainy days when oil dries up in the Middle East. So don�t go around saying the oil is the reason for the Iraq invasion because people make themselves look so stupid and ignorant.

Bottom line is that people shouldn�t go around biatching and moaning about minute short-sighted issues and they think they know every answer to the problem. Like the WWII, the history will judge it for itself in time.
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ChuckECheese



Joined: 20 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big_Bird wrote:
The real reasons for going to Iraq were clearly stated on a prominent neocon website in 1997. They discussed the economic benefits and Iraq's large oil resources. There was no mention of terrorism at that time.

The same goes for Afganistan. About a month prior to the 911 attack, the US warned the Europeans they were considering military action in Afghanistan. This was because up until that time the US had pretty much given the Taliban their backing, but the Taliban hadn't lived up to their end of the deal giving US oil companies the right to use their country to pipe Caspian oil. All this has been written about in the mainstream press, incase you are thinking it's a wild BB conspiracy theory. Wink

Suddenly come 911 the US had a fabulous new excuse. Terrorisim.

And don't forget that we were going to go there to liberate the ladies from their Burkas! Right. Confused


This is exactly what I'm talking about. Another mindless pea brain people who are totally anti-American. They believe the world would be much better if America didn't exist in the face of the earth. I guess it was terrible decision for Americans to enter into WWII, huh? I wonder where you're from? Germany perhaps where you resent the fact that the U.S. kicked your motherland's ass from taking over the entire Europe?
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Boodleheimer



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Location: working undercover for the Man

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
Quote:
Because We Could
Thomas L. Friedman
New York Times Op-Ed Columnist


The failure of the Bush team to produce any weapons of mass destruction (W.M.D.'s) in Iraq is becoming a big, big story. But is it the real story we should be concerned with? No. It was the wrong issue before the war, and it's the wrong issue now.

Why? Because there were actually four reasons for this war: the real reason, the right reason, the moral reason and the stated reason.

The "real reason" for this war, which was never stated, was that after 9/11 America needed to hit someone in the Arab-Muslim world. Afghanistan wasn't enough because a terrorism bubble had built up over there � a bubble that posed a real threat to the open societies of the West and needed to be punctured. This terrorism bubble said that plowing airplanes into the World Trade Center was O.K., having Muslim preachers say it was O.K. was O.K., having state-run newspapers call people who did such things "martyrs" was O.K. and allowing Muslim charities to raise money for such "martyrs" was O.K. Not only was all this seen as O.K., there was a feeling among radical Muslims that suicide bombing would level the balance of power between the Arab world and the West, because we had gone soft and their activists were ready to die.

The only way to puncture that bubble was for American soldiers, men and women, to go into the heart of the Arab-Muslim world, house to house, and make clear that we are ready to kill, and to die, to prevent our open society from being undermined by this terrorism bubble. Smashing Saudi Arabia or Syria would have been fine. But we hit Saddam for one simple reason: because we could, and because he deserved it and because he was right in the heart of that world. And don't believe the nonsense that this had no effect. Every neighboring government � and 98 percent of terrorism is about what governments let happen � got the message. If you talk to U.S. soldiers in Iraq they will tell you this is what the war was about.


THIS WAS WRITTEN IN 2003!!!!
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ChuckECheese



Joined: 20 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KWhitehead wrote:
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
Quote:
Because We Could
Thomas L. Friedman
New York Times Op-Ed Columnist


The failure of the Bush team to produce any weapons of mass destruction (W.M.D.'s) in Iraq is becoming a big, big story. But is it the real story we should be concerned with? No. It was the wrong issue before the war, and it's the wrong issue now.

Why? Because there were actually four reasons for this war: the real reason, the right reason, the moral reason and the stated reason.

The "real reason" for this war, which was never stated, was that after 9/11 America needed to hit someone in the Arab-Muslim world. Afghanistan wasn't enough because a terrorism bubble had built up over there � a bubble that posed a real threat to the open societies of the West and needed to be punctured. This terrorism bubble said that plowing airplanes into the World Trade Center was O.K., having Muslim preachers say it was O.K. was O.K., having state-run newspapers call people who did such things "martyrs" was O.K. and allowing Muslim charities to raise money for such "martyrs" was O.K. Not only was all this seen as O.K., there was a feeling among radical Muslims that suicide bombing would level the balance of power between the Arab world and the West, because we had gone soft and their activists were ready to die.

The only way to puncture that bubble was for American soldiers, men and women, to go into the heart of the Arab-Muslim world, house to house, and make clear that we are ready to kill, and to die, to prevent our open society from being undermined by this terrorism bubble. Smashing Saudi Arabia or Syria would have been fine. But we hit Saddam for one simple reason: because we could, and because he deserved it and because he was right in the heart of that world. And don't believe the nonsense that this had no effect. Every neighboring government � and 98 percent of terrorism is about what governments let happen � got the message. If you talk to U.S. soldiers in Iraq they will tell you this is what the war was about.


THIS WAS WRITTEN IN 2003!!!!


Who cares! Same bull-*beep* and political spinning happened during every major conflicts in the U.S including World Wars. As I said, the history will judge it for it self, in time. After 50 years, you might look back and say, you were wrong in 2006.
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChuckECheese wrote:

Wouldn�t you think that, without the American intervention, Europe as you know it today might be called Germany? Also, Asia might also be called Empire of Japan? What do you think? At the time, most Americans were against joining the WWII, but the Pear Harbor was attacked, and it changed the hearts and minds of Americans and we kicked some asses. And today, most of you are still speaking your native language and also able to biatch and complain about today�s issues.


Dang straight. If 9/11 doesn't convince you, then pull out your WWII reference books. Once you've defeated Hitler, you can do no wrong. Why don't you people see this?

Quote:
With that said, was it a good decision for the Americans to kick some terrorists� asses and countries responsible for encouraging and promoting terrorist, and most importantly attacking America and killing many thousands of Americans? My answer is, �FVCK YEAH!!!!�


Exactly. Because "taking over" Afghanistan getting rid of Saddam has obviously quelled the terrorists. Let's give everyone else in the region the same treatment. That'll teach 'em a lesson. Then terrorism will be eradicated from the face of the Earth for once and for all.

Quote:
One important thing that most pea brain and short-sighted people don�t realize about Americans and its government is that we aren�t short-sighted like many insignificant countries who only think about the present tenses. Americans always think in terms of future tenses (50 � 100 years in the best interest of the country and its allies).


Of course, we all should realize GWB is only thinking of the long term. Why else would he cut taxes and run massive deficits. For the children! Why else would he ignore Kyoto? For the children. Think people. Elections come and go, but the future is forever (or until there's Armaggedon).
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Again, the U.S. is always thinking in terms of 50-100 years and beyond for our future generations.


I wish this were true.
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ChuckECheese



Joined: 20 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

huffdaddy wrote:
ChuckECheese wrote:

Wouldn�t you think that, without the American intervention, Europe as you know it today might be called Germany? Also, Asia might also be called Empire of Japan? What do you think? At the time, most Americans were against joining the WWII, but the Pear Harbor was attacked, and it changed the hearts and minds of Americans and we kicked some asses. And today, most of you are still speaking your native language and also able to biatch and complain about today�s issues.


Dang straight. If 9/11 doesn't convince you, then pull out your WWII reference books. Once you've defeated Hitler, you can do no wrong. Why don't you people see this?

See what?

Quote:
With that said, was it a good decision for the Americans to kick some terrorists� asses and countries responsible for encouraging and promoting terrorist, and most importantly attacking America and killing many thousands of Americans? My answer is, �FVCK YEAH!!!!�


Exactly. Because "taking over" Afghanistan getting rid of Saddam has obviously quelled the terrorists. Let's give everyone else in the region the same treatment. That'll teach 'em a lesson. Then terrorism will be eradicated from the face of the Earth for once and for all.

If I had it may way, I would kick all the asses of countries that advocate, support, or fund any terrorist organization (pussies really for targeting innocent people). Why would I do that? Because I am the only country that's capable. And because I can. Cool

Quote:
One important thing that most pea brain and short-sighted people don�t realize about Americans and its government is that we aren�t short-sighted like many insignificant countries who only think about the present tenses. Americans always think in terms of future tenses (50 � 100 years in the best interest of the country and its allies).


Of course, we all should realize GWB is only thinking of the long term. Why else would he cut taxes and run massive deficits. For the children! Why else would he ignore Kyoto? For the children. Think people. Elections come and go, but the future is forever (or until there's Armaggedon).

So you're insinuating that American are causing all the problems in the world. The terroists and thug countries who support terrorism have nothing to do with these problems, huh? And who cares about the tax problems when you have crazy dudes breathing down your throats. You need to get your priority straight.
Code:


Another pea brain who only thinks about present tenses and don't see the importance of the bigger picture and future tenses.
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