|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:48 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Democracies go to war all the time. You want a case of a martial democracy, just look at Athens.
Athens was more of a democracy than the US is, as the US's democracy is diluted by an Executive and a Judicial Branch, the monarchical and aristocratic aspects of Polybius' old synthesis of Aristotle's three types of government.
The American people don't like war. Vietnam was not declared, it was an executive decision. The Iraq war had a slim majority backing it from the beginning, based on a presentation of the facts engineered by the Executive Branch. It does take some kind of catastrophe to make people feel vulnerable in order to even begin to make the case for war in America, at least on a legislative level, but that has less to do with any innate distaste for war by democracies thoughout history than it does with the fact that Americans have an aversion for war. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dbee wrote: |
| So, I guess what I'm saying is this.... |
What you have always "said," in multiple contexts, is that you find the United States to be a govt unworthy of your respect and you think it has acted in bad faith, indeed, maliciously, throughout its history. In fact, like Igotthisguitar, you may even believe that the United States is not really a democracy at all, but rather a Nazi-like police state run by a secret society that unites the likes of the "Bush Crime Family," Clinton, Kerry, and others, and all of this enabled by a stupid and overly patriotic population that makes the United States "fit to be bombed," as BLT No-Brainer has judged. And considering the amount of Latin American deaths you attribute to CIA -- "millions," you have said -- you must attribute the combined deaths that America has caused to the world at large in the hundreds of millions -- indeed, why not "billions?" The United States is a menace, then, whatever the number may be (and "they" will never really let us know, will they?).
Yet you do not quite stop with this. You have shown you think it necessary to clarify that you feel much scorn and disdain for the United States govt (while others, mainly the Canadian notAmerican faction, express smugness and moral superiority in each and every opportunity that arises to show how Canada contrasts with the United States). You express this scorn and disdain by peddling conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory and, of course, by sneering whenever an opportunity arises to do so -- and also by cheering on those who have openly declared themselves to be the United States' enemies. People like Hugo Chavez, for instance.
You are not alone on this board in voicing such an opinion, even if you have not been able to articulate it as succinctly and as clearly as I just did for you. See Octavius Hite, Yu_Bum_Suk, or Big_Bird's views, for example. And, as On the Other Hand has pointed out (but never as a reference to the poster), we must not forget to include BLT No-Brainer on this list, because no one quite does antiAmericanism as well as the antiAmericanist Americans do.
In any case, although I disagree with you (and them), your message has come across loud and clear. You do not need to force (yet another) idiotic "thesis" on an artificial topic like "democracies," "conspiracies," and "war" to be understood... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dbee
Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Location: korea
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Gopher, you truly are a strange human being. The more of your posts that I read, the more I begin to wonder as to what exactly is going on in that head of yours. You are just as freaky, if not even more freaky than IGotThisGuitar. Although you're at polar opposites to the guy in terms of political outlook.
Anyway, you don't seem to be able to carry out a reasonable discussion. So I'm not going to waste any of my time responding to your comments. Good luck with everything 
| Quote: |
Both Lenin and Hitler took advantage of new and unstable democracies to foment trouble.
|
... yes, but that's completely different. Because neither of them controlled 'democracies' once they'd gotten into power. Neither of them made war as 'democratic' leaders.
| Quote: |
ut to consider Russia a functioning democracy during the Chechnya crises is stretching it, to say the least.
|
... not necessarily no. Russia at the time had an elected government and had executive, legaslative and judicary branches. Much along the lines of how people see democracies today. Russia still is a democracy technically until Putin stays on for an unconstitutional extra term. Either way though, it was more democractic than it had ever been in it's entire history up to that point.
| Quote: |
Democracies go to war all the time. You want a case of a martial democracy, just look at Athens.
|
... true, but different geo-political climate entirely. Back in those days, with many different empires side-by-side, and lots of unclaimed land and territories, attack was often the best form of defence.
Some of the wars that were considered unnecessary and were unpopular with their people, such as the Peloponnesian wars. Do display many of the traits that I'm talking about seeing in modern democracies though, with regards to the 'spectacular provocation'.
Indeed, as the war went on - Athens went from one of the most open and democratic governments the world had ever seen - to being tyrannical and closed government just like the Spartans had, by the close of the war. A mere 30 years of the continuous warfare effect.
... anyway, interesting point Kuros. I'm really interested in classical history as well ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
